Odyssey support in the Toronto, Ontario area?

[Gabor Revesz]

Hello All,

Could anyone please let me know what kind of support I can expect
for the Odyssey in the Toronto area (Ontario, Canada)? This is a
major factor in my decision on which aircraft to buy. Any personal
experience?

Thanks,

Gabor

[george@t...]

Hi Gabor,

My Gull is scratch built. I get no factory support other than the good
graces of Mark. If he builds it for you, I expect he'll support you from the
factory. You won't need much support. They are great airplanes. I wish mine
was an Odyssey.

George

[Gabor Revesz]

Hi George,

Thanks for both your replies.

And if you have a mishap? How does the plane get fixed without
support? Who can you turn to in case you have questions?

Thanks,

Gabor

[george@t...]

You fix it. Or you have a mechanic fix it. Or you ship it back to the
company to get fixed. If it's damaged THAT bad, chances are you won't care
to fix it...your heirs might, but you won't...

Seriously, in any of the ultralights/microlights, you will have this same
problem.

George

[Gabor Revesz]

Thanks for the response!
****** see J.D's personal letter to Gabor below: Will Phelps ******

However, "practically in your back yard" is a bit (roughly 250 miles)
of a stretch of the facts. Also, according to Titan Aircraft's web
site there is a dealer in Ontario, about an hour drive away from me.

The very reason I am looking at the Odyssey (as opposed to a tandem)
is its side-by-side seating.

I guess I'll stick with the Odyssey idea for now. Thanks,

Gabor

***** J.D's personal to Gabor *****
From: "J.D. Stewart" <jstewart@i...> | This is Spam | Add to
Address Book
To: "Gabor Revesz" <maga1993@y...>
Subject: RE: [ThunderGull] Odyssey support in the Toronto, Ontario
area?
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:02:46 -0600

Have you considered the Titan Tornado, in Austinburg, Ohio?
It's a real factory instead of a mom-and-pop operation, and practically in your
back yard.

It's a tandem, much like the Gull 2000 instead of the
Odyssey. I had considered the Odyssey as my next plane, but I could never get Mark
to be prompt with e-mails, and he really doesn't support larger engines for
it.

That limits the cruise to less than 100mph. The Titan will cruise at 125
easily, and still get down into the high 30s or low 40s for stall.

Those were a couple of the reasons why I became Titan's
newest dealer. Fantastic plane with a great factory support.

J.D. Stewart
UltraFun AirSports
http://www.ultrafunairsports.com

****** End of J.D.'s note to Gabor *****

[Jim C]

Gabor,

I own a Gull 2000 - which is a single seat, not 2 seat, which is what
I wanted and I happen to like it very much. I have flown the Odyssey
and it it is a very nice flyer. I personally think the Gull is one
of the best flyers in the Advanced UL world, as you call it up
there. Compared to the Titan it seemd a bit more nimble and smoother
on the controls when I test flew them. The Titan, however is a very
nice plane and may have a few more bells and whistles but I prefer
the Gull.

As to support, Mark has always been supportive to me, but here on the
East Coast, there really is no factory support per se. You can
either fix it yourself, get help from several of your fellow UL
types, or an A&P mechanic that you trust. I use a combination of all
three depending on where my expertise is at and/or lacking. As to
Titan I think there is a dealer up in your area somewhere and of
course the factory in Ohio. If you look at Challengers, then Bryan
Quickmeyer is up in Barrie, but they do not really compare handling
wiase, depending on what you want and also don't have side by side
seating, only tandem, although they are also a nice plane. I bought
my Challenger, prior to my getting the Gull, from Bryan and he was
really good. I have found that factory support is good for info, but
my most valuable assets have been my fellow UL flyers.

As to engines, I know the Gulls have had many various size engines on
them up through the Rotax 503, 582 and 912S, and the HKS so I am not
too sure I agree with JD who says the Gulls have not messed with the
bigger engines. If I know Titan that really means the Gull has not
dealt with the Jabiru engine specifically. I have the HKS engine on
mine and it performs very nicely. As to not being able to go over
100, my ASI must be broken since it has read up to 115. Now I do
normally cruise around 85-100 since I like the feel of the plane at
that speed.

Also check with Mark - I believe there is another Gull owner up in
your area as well - I actually think he has a single seat Gull 2000.
I can't remember where he was at. He had one of the first ones built.

Jim C

[Gabor Revesz]

Jim,

Thank you very much for your detailed response! It really helps.
Especially the part where you mention that "my most valuable assets
have been my fellow UL flyers". I thought this would be the case.
And your message is the obvious example of that!

I am thinking of getting one of these planes and therefore I am
comparing them from my personal and subjective perspectives.

It seems that the following may be a good summary. Please let me
know what you think.

1.) Having flown both planes (Challenger and Gull) you vote for the
Gull.

2.) Having experienced support from both sides you pretty much rate
them equally good. However, since Bryan is closer to where I am,
this may be an advantage on the Challenger side.

3.) The number of Challenger owners in my particular area is much
higher than that of Gull owners.

4.) The UL community in the area is a very important source of help,
information and support to achieve safe flight.

Now, if this true, then #1 is the only reason to purchase the Gull,
the rest point to the Challenger. Is the weight of #1 in your
opinion large enough to outweigh the other three points?

Thanks again very much!

Gabor

[george@t...]

Gabor,

My personal opinion is that #1 far outweighs the rest, but that's just me....
:-)

George

[Jim C]

As a pure flying machine I would take the Gull anytime over the
Challenger; however, both have advantages and disadvantages. The
Challenger can fly slower and has a much lower stall speed and can
get off the ground a little quicker, although they both land in
pretty much the same distance (with flaps the gull can stop quicker
at a higher speed). The Challenger has a lot more adverse yaw in
it. The Gull is quicker to respond and flies more like a fighter.
Up in your area you have a lot of really nice lakes which make for
good fun. You can put floats on the Challenger - I don't know about
the Gull and don't know of any with floats at all. You can put skiis
on both of them. If I personally had to pick again between the
Challenger and the Gull, I would personally still take the Gull in a
heartbeat (however when I was up there I went with the Challenger due
to its versatility and the weather e.g. skiis, floats & wheels), but
I did switch over to the Gull and have never second guessed the
decision (of course I am now in Florida where there is only a couple
of months of winter at the most as well). One thing you need to look
at though before you make a decision is what you want to do with the
plane and who you are going to be flying with and hanging out with as
well, what type of flying - The UL community is more like a family
(even though we bicker at times - think of it more as siblings going
at it - at the first sign of trouble its usually a fellow ULer who is
first to be there to help).

> 2.) Having experienced support from both sides you pretty much rate
> them equally good. However, since Bryan is closer to where I am,
> this may be an advantage on the Challenger side.

I would give the edge to Challenger here due to size and
avialability.

> 3.) The number of Challenger owners in my particular area is much
> higher than that of Gull owners.

WAY MORE and Yes, there is a strong contingency of Challenger owners
up there and that does give you a bit more of a "feeling" of security
and support. If you are building the plane it gives you a BIG
advantage in having the experience and knowledge readily avialable.
If you are not building I have not found it to be as big of an
advantage (FYI, the Gull has a much better builders manual, so you
probably need more help on the Challenger to figure it out).

> 4.) The UL community in the area is a very important source of
help, information and support to achieve safe flight.

A lot of that knowledege can transcend the different types of UL's
out there. I have found that most of the support I have actually
needed is usually more needed with the engine rather than the rest of
the plane, and most of the engines out there are used on all of the
different types of UL planes. The most popular engine up in that
area use to be the Rotax 503. If you get the HKS (what I have),
their U.S. point of service is out of Conneticut which is closer to
you than me and they are very very supportive (and in my opinion a
very good engine - 4-stroke, 60 hp).

> Now, if this true, then #1 is the only reason to purchase the Gull,
> the rest point to the Challenger. Is the weight of #1 in your
> opinion large enough to outweigh the other three points?

For me personally, I would get the Gull again (as I've already
mentioned, in a heartbeat). I love this little plane. Best of luck
in your decision. There are a lot of good ones out there - Just make
sure you get what you want and not what somebody talks you into.

Jim C

[JERRY]

I have owned and flown both the Challenger and my current Thunder Gull. The
Gull flys so much better than the Challenger, or probably any other UL,
that #1 would easily out-weigh the other issues. Once you get it built and
flying there will be very little need for support.

Jerry Booker