RE: Extra fuel in a Earthstar
I have a friend who is building a Challenger powered by a HKS with a welded metal 17 gallon fuselage tank, which should give him very good range. Quad City Challenger is also offering a new and improved version of their aircraft with a modified wing that will accept 10 gallon (each) wing tanks instead of the fuselage tank. Interesting is that the Quad City Challenger dealer is not "fond" of the HKS and does not offer that engine as an option. If you want a HKS you need to go to U Fly It in Florida.
The supplier of various items specifically for the Challenger, among them is this set of plastic 10 gallon wing tanks and the welded metal. Could these be adapted to a Earthstar Wing?
http://www.sheertechnologies.net/
Skot
Wing Tanks
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blaswichk
Re: Wing Tanks
I've dreamed of 'in wing' fuel tanks ever since I started gassing up my Gull 2000, with the fuel cap inside the airplane. As I have read about other peoples endevors, including the wing of the other look alike plane, the same issue surfaces. Our wings are just too complex inside, with no clear area for a tank. They wound up with numerous small tanks, all interconnected with lines and valves, and most of them have given up Secondly to that, is that the foam in the leading edge would be severely damaged if there was an internal leak. So I am planning to put an elbow and hose to get the filler cap to the side of the plane to fill up outside. In a totally from scratch wing design, were the tanks are intregal to the planform, would an internal tank work. The Challanger is still using ultralight type wing construction, where there is tons of empty space inside. There is, I believe, at least one guy still flying with his wing tanks. Then there is the external bomb shaped tanks that have been used, but they are ugly and draggy.
kb
kb
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blaswichk
Re: Wing Tanks
Oh, your question was about 'extra fuel' in an Earthstar. I've been thinking about the small, but tall, triangle space behind the fuel tank, under the engine. It's just empty space right now. (I wonder if somebody makes skinny wedge shaped plastic tanks?)
kb
kb
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earthstaraircraft
Re: Wing Tanks
Hi Kess
I am one of the few people that has flown long distances with large wing
tanks. I flew a 32 gallon total capacity Odyssey with an HKS to North
Carolina. the longest flight was 6 .4 hrs and I only used 3/4 of that fuel
capacity. I don't think that it is worth carrying that much weight if you don't
need it. The other problem with wing tanks is that there is 3 gal unusable
and it is really difficult to know just how much gas you have so it is normal
to just fill them up and deal with 138 lb of fuel all the time. that is
like taking a small passenger along. Just because you don't know exactly how
much you have unless you fill it up.
Than there is the problem of parking it on an uneven ground and having
gallons leak out of the vent line due to flow to the low tank.
I like the HKS because it gives me longer range and without carrying more
fuel.
Happy flying
Mark
I am one of the few people that has flown long distances with large wing
tanks. I flew a 32 gallon total capacity Odyssey with an HKS to North
Carolina. the longest flight was 6 .4 hrs and I only used 3/4 of that fuel
capacity. I don't think that it is worth carrying that much weight if you don't
need it. The other problem with wing tanks is that there is 3 gal unusable
and it is really difficult to know just how much gas you have so it is normal
to just fill them up and deal with 138 lb of fuel all the time. that is
like taking a small passenger along. Just because you don't know exactly how
much you have unless you fill it up.
Than there is the problem of parking it on an uneven ground and having
gallons leak out of the vent line due to flow to the low tank.
I like the HKS because it gives me longer range and without carrying more
fuel.
Happy flying
Mark
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fgayford
Re: Wing Tanks
Hi Kess
Did you see the pictures of the 15 gallon plastic tanks in the General photo album? I wish I knew if the "Other Similar Plane as you called it" duplicated the aft section of the JT2 well enough to fit that tank into my JT2.
Fred
Did you see the pictures of the 15 gallon plastic tanks in the General photo album? I wish I knew if the "Other Similar Plane as you called it" duplicated the aft section of the JT2 well enough to fit that tank into my JT2.
Fred
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cossitt.alan
Re: Wing Tanks
Yeah, the wing tank shown wouldn't work due to the alerion push rod. I've
(with my wing tanks) not had the problems Mark mentions about the
uncertainty of fuel since my fuel flow system is pretty accurate but I have
the advantage of a 4 gallon aluminum header tank that is in that small
triangular space behind location of the normal fuel tank. So when I run out
of fuel in the wing tanks I can still fly on my header tank for 45+ minutes.
I would not be so sanguine if I did not have my header tank since the fuel
level accurancy of my wing tanks is anywhere from 0 to 1 gallons (how much
my gas level guage shows when I actually run out). I also don't have a
large unusuable gas amount in my wing tanks. I have a calcuated gas level
based on sending my fuel injection pulses to a fuel flow calculator.
So, i would suggest that for safety anybody flying with wing tanks have a
header tank, but that in turn increases complexity (need to get the fuel to
the header tank, handle overflow and let the system breath).
What I have had happen is a tank cracked due to the pressure from my arm on
the top of the wing during refueling. This pressed down on the gas tank and
over time caused a crack.
Destroying the foam in the D cell and in the Flaps are both real
possibilties. Both need to be protected since crack and spills will happen.
I have 1 ten gallon aluminum (rectangular) fuel tank in each wing for a
total of 23.5 gallons (actually, 23 gallons since I have 0.5 gallon in the
header tank that I don't count for safety reasons, i.e., my mechanical guage
in the header tanks reads zero when I have close to another 1/2 gallon of
fuel in the header tank -- this protects against error). I never fly close
to zero in the header tank since that is a real risk even with the reserve.
The header tank has about 2 cups of unusable fuel below this to protect
against getting water into the fuel intake.
I would like to replace these aluminum tanks with plastic tanks of roughly
the same size for durabilty and weight. The tank also needs to be supported
since the bottom wing aluminum sheet is not strong enough to work without
braces (w/ 60 lbs of fuel + 30 lbs of tank) resting on top of it.
When the weather gets a little better I'll take photos of my system to give
you guys a better idea of what I am talking about.
-alan
(with my wing tanks) not had the problems Mark mentions about the
uncertainty of fuel since my fuel flow system is pretty accurate but I have
the advantage of a 4 gallon aluminum header tank that is in that small
triangular space behind location of the normal fuel tank. So when I run out
of fuel in the wing tanks I can still fly on my header tank for 45+ minutes.
I would not be so sanguine if I did not have my header tank since the fuel
level accurancy of my wing tanks is anywhere from 0 to 1 gallons (how much
my gas level guage shows when I actually run out). I also don't have a
large unusuable gas amount in my wing tanks. I have a calcuated gas level
based on sending my fuel injection pulses to a fuel flow calculator.
So, i would suggest that for safety anybody flying with wing tanks have a
header tank, but that in turn increases complexity (need to get the fuel to
the header tank, handle overflow and let the system breath).
What I have had happen is a tank cracked due to the pressure from my arm on
the top of the wing during refueling. This pressed down on the gas tank and
over time caused a crack.
Destroying the foam in the D cell and in the Flaps are both real
possibilties. Both need to be protected since crack and spills will happen.
I have 1 ten gallon aluminum (rectangular) fuel tank in each wing for a
total of 23.5 gallons (actually, 23 gallons since I have 0.5 gallon in the
header tank that I don't count for safety reasons, i.e., my mechanical guage
in the header tanks reads zero when I have close to another 1/2 gallon of
fuel in the header tank -- this protects against error). I never fly close
to zero in the header tank since that is a real risk even with the reserve.
The header tank has about 2 cups of unusable fuel below this to protect
against getting water into the fuel intake.
I would like to replace these aluminum tanks with plastic tanks of roughly
the same size for durabilty and weight. The tank also needs to be supported
since the bottom wing aluminum sheet is not strong enough to work without
braces (w/ 60 lbs of fuel + 30 lbs of tank) resting on top of it.
When the weather gets a little better I'll take photos of my system to give
you guys a better idea of what I am talking about.
-alan
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: Wing Tanks
wow! now am really wondering about the routes the Gulls take for long
scenic sorties, do pilots share routes like gpsies.com? i have yet to
share a bike route like this, http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=twujdwjqreksmnno
The triangular space below the engine, in the Odyssey at least, may
take well over 15 gallons of a custom plastic tank. though with the
BRS and the gas all in the back, wonder what'll happen to it's CG.
always parked nose up, always eager to rotate?
wonder what's the minimum quantity these guys need to build a custom
plastic tank, maybe somewhat expensive initially but may satisfy most
criteria in the long run, http://www.modroto.com/products/fueltanks.php
rc
scenic sorties, do pilots share routes like gpsies.com? i have yet to
share a bike route like this, http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=twujdwjqreksmnno
The triangular space below the engine, in the Odyssey at least, may
take well over 15 gallons of a custom plastic tank. though with the
BRS and the gas all in the back, wonder what'll happen to it's CG.
always parked nose up, always eager to rotate?
wonder what's the minimum quantity these guys need to build a custom
plastic tank, maybe somewhat expensive initially but may satisfy most
criteria in the long run, http://www.modroto.com/products/fueltanks.php
rc
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meflyslo
Re: Wing Tanks
They will,,,, if you buy the mold.
Should be less than ten grand. ;-)
Loren
Should be less than ten grand. ;-)
Loren
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: Wing Tanks
Loren,
i love deserts. we are desert people, many generations in Rajasthan,
India. there's some thing about arid zone flora and fauna, the way the
chillies taste, the spices, the camel with gallons of water - the way
they pack their essence is hard to find anywhere else. i was held back
by a painful memory last summers there earlier ...
yes, guess it would take 50 pilots to contribute to make it
worthwhile, and then it's a mass design thing. till then a bit larger
jerrycan is just sweet for our limited edition ferrari Gulls :)
rc
i love deserts. we are desert people, many generations in Rajasthan,
India. there's some thing about arid zone flora and fauna, the way the
chillies taste, the spices, the camel with gallons of water - the way
they pack their essence is hard to find anywhere else. i was held back
by a painful memory last summers there earlier ...
yes, guess it would take 50 pilots to contribute to make it
worthwhile, and then it's a mass design thing. till then a bit larger
jerrycan is just sweet for our limited edition ferrari Gulls :)
rc
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blaswichk
Re: Wing Tanks
Well after looking at my friends 'J', and the first generation other plane, it looks like it would fit just fine. Just bear in mind that it straddles the fuselage tube, and hangs down on both sides, so the area underneath it needs to be free of anything. They also use a cross-over tube to connect both sides together that are below the heighth of the fuselage.
kb
kb