I just remembered something you might find interesting.
I don't know if it was discussed here or on another site.
A few years back I was talking to a Titan Tornado employee at Oshkosh.
He said the Tornado was really a Gull wing and that they had tried putting their P-51 wing on a Titan Tornado thinking that they would see some kind of increase in speed or better handling.
Their conclusion? It didn't improve it at all. So I guess the Tornado will stick with Marks wing design. I guess the greatest compliment a designer can have is that another designer is unable to improve on your design. It would be even better if the wing was licenced and a royalty
paid to the designer!
Thats how the world works in industry. Its a shame in my opinion that anyone can copy and sell aircraft designs and call it their own. Look at the Zenith Aircraft clone manufacturers!and so many more.
Thats just me.
Fred
The Wing is the thing.
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: The Wing is the thing.
It's a lifestyle business a bit like the unpatented fashion industry. when i was googling for a suitable plane in the winters, saw a couple of third party ripoff speculations but silence in general, an single stray comment from a oshkosh visitor about an efficiency nut with unpolished interiors, a unusually quiet group, a top speed and cruise of 87 mph in the specs, incredibly less unit sales listed, one sole reported accident while making a video of an immelman loop, and the designer's funny smile with a wince at thundergull.com. it felt the designer must've been made an offer he could'nt refuse. that sort of thing must be difficult to repeat. It was funnier why the titan left out the fiberglass body to reduce weight/vibration, went for the pointy nose and an oddly broad rudder. it was the Odyssey, the Israeli manufacturing setup, the common sense of staying with the innovation marshmallow for a bit longer, the greater depression... The future, incumbents will still carry weight, the richer will mostly get richerer, a few disruptive technologies that'll take their own sweet time to arrive with World peace to solve and things - a whispering immaculate Gull that climbs really high and can dive really fast all day long ought to be well within 2020.
anyways, is the Soaring Gull's airfoil different apart from the longer span? 64 mpg seems like a big leap when 38 mpg, 2.5 gph was really nice a few months back.
Rahul
anyways, is the Soaring Gull's airfoil different apart from the longer span? 64 mpg seems like a big leap when 38 mpg, 2.5 gph was really nice a few months back.
Rahul
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blaswichk
Re: The Wing is the thing.
Rahul,
I'm sure that the airfoil is the same, just a longer span for more total lift. And I suspect that the incredible mileage was not for the whole trip, but one segment, which was probably due to a nice steady push on the tail. Mpg is an interesting figure because it always includes a wind component. The real figure we have to use in-flight is gph (gallons or liters per hour), and the HKS is good at that, as well as the very efficient wing. The big wing works really well at higher altitudes where good tailwinds can be seeked out, but sometimes you have to live with some headwind, and then the goal is to minimize it by finding an altitude for the best or least winds aloft, or even change course slightly.
So your looking for a plane for your winters, which are probably warm, when ours are cold. I fly my Gull all through the winters here when it's not raining or snowing. In the cold weather, (25-30 degrees fairenheight), the Gull flies really well because of the dense air, and no draft inside. Oh, also the reason for the Titan not having the fiberglass fuselage enclosure is because they copied the earlier JT2 Gull and tried to make it look a little different with the pointy nose, only to find out that it caused the plane to weave back and forth, and the only way to stop that was to enlarge the vertical stabilizer. Why they haven't copied Mark's fiberglass fuselage is probably because now most of their efforts are in the T-51 where the big money is. I think they are done doing anything more to the Titan, as one of their main brains has left the company.
kb
I'm sure that the airfoil is the same, just a longer span for more total lift. And I suspect that the incredible mileage was not for the whole trip, but one segment, which was probably due to a nice steady push on the tail. Mpg is an interesting figure because it always includes a wind component. The real figure we have to use in-flight is gph (gallons or liters per hour), and the HKS is good at that, as well as the very efficient wing. The big wing works really well at higher altitudes where good tailwinds can be seeked out, but sometimes you have to live with some headwind, and then the goal is to minimize it by finding an altitude for the best or least winds aloft, or even change course slightly.
So your looking for a plane for your winters, which are probably warm, when ours are cold. I fly my Gull all through the winters here when it's not raining or snowing. In the cold weather, (25-30 degrees fairenheight), the Gull flies really well because of the dense air, and no draft inside. Oh, also the reason for the Titan not having the fiberglass fuselage enclosure is because they copied the earlier JT2 Gull and tried to make it look a little different with the pointy nose, only to find out that it caused the plane to weave back and forth, and the only way to stop that was to enlarge the vertical stabilizer. Why they haven't copied Mark's fiberglass fuselage is probably because now most of their efforts are in the T-51 where the big money is. I think they are done doing anything more to the Titan, as one of their main brains has left the company.
kb
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earthstaraircraft
Re: The Wing is the thing.
Hi Rahul
The 64 mpg is with a tail wind. the true airspeed average is 50.1, the
soaring gull airfoil is the same. Happy Flying,
Mark
In a message dated 6/27/2011 2:26:37 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
rahul.chou@gmail.com writes:
It's a lifestyle business a bit like the unpatented fashion industry. when
i was googling for a suitable plane in the winters, saw a couple of third
party ripoff speculations but silence in general, an single stray comment
from a oshkosh visitor about an efficiency nut with unpolished interiors, a
unusually quiet group, a top speed and cruise of 87 mph in the specs,
incredibly less unit sales listed, one sole reported accident while making a
video of an immelman loop, and the designer's funny smile with a wince at
_thundergull.com_ (http://thundergull.com/) . it felt the designer must've been
made an offer he could'nt refuse. that sort of thing must be difficult to
repeat. It was funnier why the titan left out the fiberglass body to reduce
weight/vibration, went for the pointy nose and an oddly broad rudder. it
was the Odyssey, the Israeli manufacturing setup, the common sense of staying
with the innovation marshmallow for a bit longer, the greater
depression... The future, incumbents will still carry weight, the richer will mostly
get richerer, a few disruptive technologies that'll take their own sweet
time to arrive with World peace to solve and things - a whispering
immaculate Gull that climbs really high and can dive really fast all day long ought
to be well within 2020.
anyways, is the Soaring Gull's airfoil different apart from the longer
span? 64 mpg seems like a big leap when 38 mpg, 2.5 gph was really nice a few
months back.
Rahul
The 64 mpg is with a tail wind. the true airspeed average is 50.1, the
soaring gull airfoil is the same. Happy Flying,
Mark
In a message dated 6/27/2011 2:26:37 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
rahul.chou@gmail.com writes:
It's a lifestyle business a bit like the unpatented fashion industry. when
i was googling for a suitable plane in the winters, saw a couple of third
party ripoff speculations but silence in general, an single stray comment
from a oshkosh visitor about an efficiency nut with unpolished interiors, a
unusually quiet group, a top speed and cruise of 87 mph in the specs,
incredibly less unit sales listed, one sole reported accident while making a
video of an immelman loop, and the designer's funny smile with a wince at
_thundergull.com_ (http://thundergull.com/) . it felt the designer must've been
made an offer he could'nt refuse. that sort of thing must be difficult to
repeat. It was funnier why the titan left out the fiberglass body to reduce
weight/vibration, went for the pointy nose and an oddly broad rudder. it
was the Odyssey, the Israeli manufacturing setup, the common sense of staying
with the innovation marshmallow for a bit longer, the greater
depression... The future, incumbents will still carry weight, the richer will mostly
get richerer, a few disruptive technologies that'll take their own sweet
time to arrive with World peace to solve and things - a whispering
immaculate Gull that climbs really high and can dive really fast all day long ought
to be well within 2020.
anyways, is the Soaring Gull's airfoil different apart from the longer
span? 64 mpg seems like a big leap when 38 mpg, 2.5 gph was really nice a few
months back.
Rahul
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: The Wing is the thing.
Hello, Fred. Wish you wonderful day! http://onemann.blogspot.com/2011/07/can ... facts.html
Hello, Kess. last winters i was looking for a plane to build/buy this winters, maybe get a few lessons by aug/sep around Toronto while studying at UofT near extended family. Things are still open as the class got full. Here in Delhi and suburbs, GA is banned for security concerns for over a decade or more. we get some paragliding an hr away sometimes. there's a pipistrel factory that opened a few years back near my hometown, a few hours west. it'll serve the Asian market, with a bells and whistles airfield coming up to promote this. with just 16 airfields in one beautiful semi desert state, Rajasthan, to begin with, it's going to take a decade at least until the flying bug really catches on in general. To invest a decade under the tutelage of the best on a hobby that may serve well for retirement when things start expanding, while making a contribution with an exquisite gullsense ins in my spare time - felt like a simple dream with no rush. as for real airtime, 14 paragliding flights in the plains for a few hours in the air is all i have today, i know, i sit in the very backbench of these awesome Gull classes :O)
btw, this sounds like fun too, http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... louds.html
rc
Hello, Kess. last winters i was looking for a plane to build/buy this winters, maybe get a few lessons by aug/sep around Toronto while studying at UofT near extended family. Things are still open as the class got full. Here in Delhi and suburbs, GA is banned for security concerns for over a decade or more. we get some paragliding an hr away sometimes. there's a pipistrel factory that opened a few years back near my hometown, a few hours west. it'll serve the Asian market, with a bells and whistles airfield coming up to promote this. with just 16 airfields in one beautiful semi desert state, Rajasthan, to begin with, it's going to take a decade at least until the flying bug really catches on in general. To invest a decade under the tutelage of the best on a hobby that may serve well for retirement when things start expanding, while making a contribution with an exquisite gullsense ins in my spare time - felt like a simple dream with no rush. as for real airtime, 14 paragliding flights in the plains for a few hours in the air is all i have today, i know, i sit in the very backbench of these awesome Gull classes :O)
btw, this sounds like fun too, http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... louds.html
rc
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dickoreilly
Re: The Wing is the thing.
Rahul
Thanks for reminding us how lucky we are with all the freedoms and opportunities we have in the USA. It is particularly appropriate as we begin a 4th of July weekend celebrating our indepence.
I read this week that France is going to allow GA pilots to get instrument ratings. I flew in France many years ago with an instructor. My first grass field landing in fact. We had to stay low, 1800 meters I recall. I strayed to high and he got chewed out by controllers. I could tell from tone of voice only. He spoke only French. I spoke only English. We both spoke "airplane" and that worked.
Different story. My instrument instructor (1987) was Austrian. He grew up wanting to be a pilot. But at 15 the Austrian school authorities decided he could not be a pilot and would be schooled to be an auto mechanic instead. Years later he got into the USA and became a pilot in Florida. When I knew him he was a flight instructor in Long Beach, CA. building hours to get his ATP. he essentially lived out of the trunk of his Ford Pinto. He did get his ATP and a job flying for a commuter airline before I lost track of him.
Dick
Sent from my iPhone
Thanks for reminding us how lucky we are with all the freedoms and opportunities we have in the USA. It is particularly appropriate as we begin a 4th of July weekend celebrating our indepence.
I read this week that France is going to allow GA pilots to get instrument ratings. I flew in France many years ago with an instructor. My first grass field landing in fact. We had to stay low, 1800 meters I recall. I strayed to high and he got chewed out by controllers. I could tell from tone of voice only. He spoke only French. I spoke only English. We both spoke "airplane" and that worked.
Different story. My instrument instructor (1987) was Austrian. He grew up wanting to be a pilot. But at 15 the Austrian school authorities decided he could not be a pilot and would be schooled to be an auto mechanic instead. Years later he got into the USA and became a pilot in Florida. When I knew him he was a flight instructor in Long Beach, CA. building hours to get his ATP. he essentially lived out of the trunk of his Ford Pinto. He did get his ATP and a job flying for a commuter airline before I lost track of him.
Dick
Sent from my iPhone
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: The Wing is the thing.
Dear Mr. O'Reilly, and Everyone. have a great weekend. Congratulations in advance. i mostly stayed there in the winters, seven fun ones so far. it's awesome. with a plane next time, i can only imagine.
Rahul
Rahul
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: The Wing is the thing.
Hope everyone had a great Independence day! http://research.ly/independence%20day/US
rc
rc