Due to the recall of certain Zero Motorcycles batteries last year
(improperly sealed against water spray), there is still a shortage of the
batteries I have been planning to use in my eGull. Mark has been waiting
for a battery for a year. So now I am looking for a used Zero bike, from
which I can extract the battery, motor, controller, charger, and various
smaller components. If anyone knows where I can find one, please let me
know. I am monitoring cycletrader.com.
The model must be a 2013 or 2014 model year, have the ZF5.7 battery pack,
and either the 30 or 40kW motor. A wreck would be ideal. Should be well
under $9,000.
My eGull's cage has a battery rack that will accept up to three of the
ZF2.8 battery modules (ZF5.7 has two). Too late to change course and go
with any of the larger Zero batteries.
Thanks for your help!
need Zero powertrain
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earthstaraircraft
Re: need Zero powertrain
Hi Martin
I just recited all the battery's I have ordered so it looks like there available. $2,700 ea for 2.8 kWh battery's.
Happy Flying
Mark
Sent from my iPhone
I just recited all the battery's I have ordered so it looks like there available. $2,700 ea for 2.8 kWh battery's.
Happy Flying
Mark
Sent from my iPhone
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tcstuart47
Re: need Zero powertrain
Martin,
What about buying a new Zero FX ZF5.7. Retails for $12,000. Then you could parts out the frame, tires, wheels.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-fx/specs.php http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-fx/specs.php
Clay Stuart
What about buying a new Zero FX ZF5.7. Retails for $12,000. Then you could parts out the frame, tires, wheels.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-fx/specs.php http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-fx/specs.php
Clay Stuart
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mkoxxy
Re: need Zero powertrain
I have looked into that option. By the time you add dealer costs (title,
prep, shipping, etc) it will cost closer to $13k. But you could recoup some
of that through EV tax incentives, and you could try to sell what you don't
need. Still, it would not be easy to beat a la carte cost; I just told Mark
to go ahead and write me a quote for all new Zero gear (likely $10,200 with
2 of the ZF2.8 batteries) plus the powertrain components from Earthstar
(motor mount, re-drive, prop, "cowl") (likely around $4,500). If I include
the Cycle Analyst Mark recommends to keep track of charge / discharge /
rate / time remaining, etc, the entire propulsion system will come in at
around $15k.
I am about $22k into the project now (including shipping). Will add another
$1300 for a professional paint job, and $2000 for a Dynon EFIS D60. Not
sure yet what I will do about a radio (I do want one, for safety, but it
could be a handheld) and GPS (not that important with a 100 mile range).
And I will need a trailer to transport the plane to a nearby ex-military
field for flight testing, then to haul it home from my FBO at season end.
So, I will have over $40k into my plane before radio, GPS and trailer (and
3rd battery). This is a sizable investment - I'll be sure to carry
sufficient hull insurance.
But this plane has the potential to return every penny when I sell it
(either because I'm getting bored with it and want to move on to the next
project, or because of financial pressure). Earthstar is turning out a
limited number of kits or finished planes, tilting the supply/demand factor
in my favor. Other than the batteries, there are no wear items that will
reduce the value (OK, may need to replace the windshield), and being an
Ultralight, the pool of potential buyers is large. Also, it looks like my
plane will have plenty of exposure in aviation circles, so finding a buyer
will be much easier.
Mark, I hope you don't mind that I disclose $ figures on the Internet -
ultimately, the builder community benefits from having realistic
expectations. And I think even at $40k, the eGull represents a good value,
especially considering the practically non-existent operating and
maintenance costs.
Martin
prep, shipping, etc) it will cost closer to $13k. But you could recoup some
of that through EV tax incentives, and you could try to sell what you don't
need. Still, it would not be easy to beat a la carte cost; I just told Mark
to go ahead and write me a quote for all new Zero gear (likely $10,200 with
2 of the ZF2.8 batteries) plus the powertrain components from Earthstar
(motor mount, re-drive, prop, "cowl") (likely around $4,500). If I include
the Cycle Analyst Mark recommends to keep track of charge / discharge /
rate / time remaining, etc, the entire propulsion system will come in at
around $15k.
I am about $22k into the project now (including shipping). Will add another
$1300 for a professional paint job, and $2000 for a Dynon EFIS D60. Not
sure yet what I will do about a radio (I do want one, for safety, but it
could be a handheld) and GPS (not that important with a 100 mile range).
And I will need a trailer to transport the plane to a nearby ex-military
field for flight testing, then to haul it home from my FBO at season end.
So, I will have over $40k into my plane before radio, GPS and trailer (and
3rd battery). This is a sizable investment - I'll be sure to carry
sufficient hull insurance.
But this plane has the potential to return every penny when I sell it
(either because I'm getting bored with it and want to move on to the next
project, or because of financial pressure). Earthstar is turning out a
limited number of kits or finished planes, tilting the supply/demand factor
in my favor. Other than the batteries, there are no wear items that will
reduce the value (OK, may need to replace the windshield), and being an
Ultralight, the pool of potential buyers is large. Also, it looks like my
plane will have plenty of exposure in aviation circles, so finding a buyer
will be much easier.
Mark, I hope you don't mind that I disclose $ figures on the Internet -
ultimately, the builder community benefits from having realistic
expectations. And I think even at $40k, the eGull represents a good value,
especially considering the practically non-existent operating and
maintenance costs.
Martin
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: need Zero powertrain
Hey Martin, sounds really cool! does it include the zero quick-charger option? Is it onboard? what's the charging interface in terms voltage and amperes? i was wondering if the controller did double duty as a charger too (yet to learn about power electronics..)
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mkoxxy
Re: need Zero powertrain
Mark can probably answer this much better. The charger I plan to carry
on-board will operate at 110V and charge the ZF5.7 in less than 8 hours
from depleted. A second charger (on the ground, operating on a separate
circuit) would be able to halve the charging time. CHAdeMO is available as
an option, but not likely to be useful at public airstrips (yet). Not sure
if the controller participates when charging. This is all straight Zero
Motorcycles technology:
Power systemEst. pack life to 80% (city)79,000 miles (127,000 km)158,000
miles (254,000 km)Power packZ-Force(R) Li-Ion intelligent modularZ-Force(R)
Li-Ion intelligent modularMax capacity2.8 kWh5.7 kWhNominal capacity2.5 kWh5.0
kWhCharger type650 W, integrated650 W, integratedCharge time (standard)4.1
hours (100% charged) / 3.7 hours (95% charged)7.8 hours (100% charged) /
7.4 hours (95% charged)CHAdeMO charge time (accessory)1.5 hours (100%
charged) / 1 hour (95% charged)1.5 hours (100% charged) / 1 hour (95%
charged)Quick 2x charger time (accessory)1.9 hours (100% charged) / 1.4
hours (95% charged)3.3 hours (100% charged) / 2.8 hours (95%
charged)InputStandard
110V or 220VStandard 110V or 220V
on-board will operate at 110V and charge the ZF5.7 in less than 8 hours
from depleted. A second charger (on the ground, operating on a separate
circuit) would be able to halve the charging time. CHAdeMO is available as
an option, but not likely to be useful at public airstrips (yet). Not sure
if the controller participates when charging. This is all straight Zero
Motorcycles technology:
Power systemEst. pack life to 80% (city)79,000 miles (127,000 km)158,000
miles (254,000 km)Power packZ-Force(R) Li-Ion intelligent modularZ-Force(R)
Li-Ion intelligent modularMax capacity2.8 kWh5.7 kWhNominal capacity2.5 kWh5.0
kWhCharger type650 W, integrated650 W, integratedCharge time (standard)4.1
hours (100% charged) / 3.7 hours (95% charged)7.8 hours (100% charged) /
7.4 hours (95% charged)CHAdeMO charge time (accessory)1.5 hours (100%
charged) / 1 hour (95% charged)1.5 hours (100% charged) / 1 hour (95%
charged)Quick 2x charger time (accessory)1.9 hours (100% charged) / 1.4
hours (95% charged)3.3 hours (100% charged) / 2.8 hours (95%
charged)InputStandard
110V or 220VStandard 110V or 220V
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: need Zero powertrain
Hello Mark,
Wish the CAFE foundation session went great.
Mitsubishi Electric commercialized a new on board charger last month.
3.5kW, 11.5kg. What do you think about the attached specifications?
Please tell me more about the charger interface requirements to match a
suitable battery for the eGull (and a future eOdyssey) and the time it
ought to take to charge. What is the onboard charger Martin plans to fly
with as of now?
I checked the ChaDeMo chargers, closet sized (25&50kW) units that cost like
a $1000/kW charging capacity, which seems to be pricing for units for
public charging, which recoup costs over a decade. Hope an third
party onboard charger for private use, like in a car or plane works out to
be better value for money than that.
Still in India, I have been thinking through the technical feasibility of a
light weight power source and the tooling required for a prototype. If the
prototype weight & efficiency works out as expected, the workshop would
suffice for a small number of units to begin with.
In particular, the heat exchangers need state of the art tools, which may
be easily available there, like with fuel cell manufacturers. a small
sized microEDM machine (like Sarix) and a high pressure furnace for
diffusion bonding (like vpei.com). Wonder if you know any folks in this
kind of business.
While giving myself a go ahead for such a product, is still a month or
more away, as there are two cross disciplinary subjects to become
proficient on; and figuring out the true market potential of such a device
in the presence of major competition before i think of any funding needs or
avoiding it all together until after a prototype and a limited production
run.
More later,
Thanks,
Rahul
Wish the CAFE foundation session went great.
Mitsubishi Electric commercialized a new on board charger last month.
3.5kW, 11.5kg. What do you think about the attached specifications?
Please tell me more about the charger interface requirements to match a
suitable battery for the eGull (and a future eOdyssey) and the time it
ought to take to charge. What is the onboard charger Martin plans to fly
with as of now?
I checked the ChaDeMo chargers, closet sized (25&50kW) units that cost like
a $1000/kW charging capacity, which seems to be pricing for units for
public charging, which recoup costs over a decade. Hope an third
party onboard charger for private use, like in a car or plane works out to
be better value for money than that.
Still in India, I have been thinking through the technical feasibility of a
light weight power source and the tooling required for a prototype. If the
prototype weight & efficiency works out as expected, the workshop would
suffice for a small number of units to begin with.
In particular, the heat exchangers need state of the art tools, which may
be easily available there, like with fuel cell manufacturers. a small
sized microEDM machine (like Sarix) and a high pressure furnace for
diffusion bonding (like vpei.com). Wonder if you know any folks in this
kind of business.
While giving myself a go ahead for such a product, is still a month or
more away, as there are two cross disciplinary subjects to become
proficient on; and figuring out the true market potential of such a device
in the presence of major competition before i think of any funding needs or
avoiding it all together until after a prototype and a limited production
run.
More later,
Thanks,
Rahul
- Attachments
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: need Zero powertrain
thought I'd share,
http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors ... -the-rails
mitsubishi iMiEV 2014 retails for a pretty surprising 15 grand (after a 7.5 grand rebate), wish it could tow a trailered gull too. It was based on a gasoline powered car platform called "i", just like the Gull is thee right platform for e (& hybrid). iMiEV made it to the Guinness records as the first EV to sell 10000 units, couple years back
Thanks,
Rahul
http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors ... -the-rails
mitsubishi iMiEV 2014 retails for a pretty surprising 15 grand (after a 7.5 grand rebate), wish it could tow a trailered gull too. It was based on a gasoline powered car platform called "i", just like the Gull is thee right platform for e (& hybrid). iMiEV made it to the Guinness records as the first EV to sell 10000 units, couple years back
Thanks,
Rahul
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Martin Koxxy
Re: need Zero powertrain
thanks, Rahul. The company I work for (Cascade Microtech, Inc) is launching
an on-wafer test station for power semiconductors, capable of 300A and
10kV. Lots of potential in this market.
an on-wafer test station for power semiconductors, capable of 300A and
10kV. Lots of potential in this market.
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: need Zero powertrain
Yes, i'll consider me self to be a week old in this area. Amazing that power electronics is such a multidisciplinary field in itself. Learning curves are the best. Must be quite a challenge to build the heat exchanger for that tool. Doesn't sound like hydro, I'm guessing a pair of pretty long slim cu diffusion bonded HX units. Getting into a power handbook now, wish i can pepper thou with questions as mentor in a few weeks