Quiet List

[willphelps52]

There have been no posts at all in the past 5 days. Flying weather
must be pretty good.

Anyway... I've tried a few times to e-mail Ed Baker to see what's up
with his website. He's building an Odyssey and seemed to stop
updating the site around June. Every time I send an e-mail to the
address given, I get a delivery error. If he's too busy building to
update the website, I'd help out any way I can. (With the web work,
not building... although if he lived close to me I'd love to help
build.)

If anyone knows Ed, just tell him his site is great. I've looked at
all the build photos from the Flightstar and the Odyssey. For those
of you that haven't seen his site... here's the link.

http://world.std.com/~ejb/index.html

[derbaier]

Hey Will, I check this list at least four times a day! This is one of
the quieter aircraft lists on Yahoo, but I guess that just means that
there are not of problems to talk about. :-)

I have not had any luck in contacting Ed Baker either, but I have
already gathered some ideas for his web site.

I've still got a month to go before it is time to go back up to Santa
Margarita to pick up my kit. But, I have already got my pickup truck
set up to haul it. I also put my single seat Challenger Clip Wing
Special up for sale this weekend. I will need the space when I finish
the ThunderGull, and it seems to take so long to sell a plane that I
figured I should start early. :-)

Regards,
--Dave

[Willy]

Hey Will,

Thanks so much for posting Ed Bakers' site. Hope he continues
with it. It is the only really detailed description of the Gull
building process which I have come across. A rare watering
hole in, what seems to be, an arid landscape.

Willy

[willphelps52]

Well, I'm off for a weeks R&R on the sunny outer banks of North
Carolina. I'll be away from my computer for a week, so I hope by the
time I get back SOMEBODY has posted a great flying story or a good
tech tip, or at least sang the praises of the Thundergull.

If you read some posts on the Challenger lists, you'd think all other
Ultralight were crap! What a cheer leading squad. Yet they address
question after question on how to improve it. Go figure. In fairness,
many of the discussions were about the Rotax engine. Good info for
any ultralight using that setup.

So while I'm on the beach reading my Ultralight Training Manual and
re-reading every scrap of info I have about the Gull... you guys (new
jersey term?) enjoy. Don't work too hard.


Will

[Ron Carroll]

Since Don practically stole my *J*, I've been walking the streets hoping to
find another. So far I've only succeeded in wearing out my shoes.

However, I did find a TG for sale right here in Good Old Oregon. I went to
look at it a couple of days ago, expecting to see another like the one that
was 'taken' from me. I was disappointed when I got there. The good-old-boy
selling it was quite proud of it, and rightly so. it just didn't measure up
to what I was accustomed to. It is a 1887 model called a "T-1". I had
never heard of this before, but that shouldn't surprise anyone who knows me..
It has a 27' folding wing with lift struts. It packs away nicely into a
garage.

The T-1 was a very early model that had a horizontal stabilizer with and
elevator, and no flaps (probably an option). It has a 447 engine mounted
inverted, which, along with the muffler that passed through the cage below
the engine (in one side and out the other) must generate mucho noise in the
cage. It has no electric system, so, no electric instruments or lights.

All in all, it isn't a bad plane, just not up to current standards. The
price for this is $12,000, or $15,000 if you also want to flatbed trailer it
is on, and a handheld radio. If anyone is interested I can get more info
for you. Also. if anyone knows of a TG or Titan for sale, keep me in mind,
ok?

Lonesome Ron

[Willy]

Ron,

How similar are the Gull and the Titan? Mark told me that he designed
the Titan but he didn't elaborate.

Willy

[Ron Carroll]

The Titan and the Gull are nearly identical. In fact, most of the parts are
interchangeable (except the nose-cone). The story goes that an ex-employee
of Earthstar split from the company and started building Titans, using the
design created by his former employer. As I understand it the planes fly
identically also.

I have several friends that fell in love with my TG-J, and tried to order
one themselves. However, Mark isn't the fastest horse in the race, and
doesn't push himself too hard. My friends waited so long that they canceled
their order, and went for a Titan, which was delivered almost immediately.
Mark would increase business tremendously if he would be more timely with
his orders.

We can't win them all! Find me a Titan or a TG, ok?

Ron

[derbaier]

That is the same story that I have heard from a pretty good source.
The only addition to the story is that I also heard that the renegade
employee is no longer with Titan either.


> As I understand it the planes fly
> identically also.

I really wonder about that?
The nose of the Titan was extended so much that it had to negatively
affect the plane's stability, wouldn't it? But the high lift, low
drag wing design of the ThunderGull appears to be identical on the
Titan?


> I have several friends that fell in love with my TG-J, and tried to order
> one themselves. However, Mark isn't the fastest horse in the race, and
> doesn't push himself too hard. My friends waited so long that they canceled
> their order, and went for a Titan, which was delivered almost immediately..
> Mark would increase business tremendously if he would be more timely with
> his orders.
>
> We can't win them all! Find me a Titan or a TG, ok?
>
> Ron

My Gull 2000 order is due at the middle of next month, so I guess I
will soon find out if EarthStar's order fullfillment schedules are
working out any better now.

From my point of view the focus of Earthstar and Titan are just about
as different as two companies could be. Titan is producing a plane
that they didn't didn't have to put much into in the way of R&D
resouces, but they did put a lot of resources into production and
dealer networks. It looks like they are a purely business enterprise.

On the other hand, it appears to me that Mark's EarthStar venture is
there to support his love of flying, and the design R&D end of the
business. Mark seems to have done some really great work on the Rad-
Cam engine design, and all the incremental improvements that went
into the Gull2K and Odyssey. I really like the fact that Mark flys
his own designs all over the country too. It was because I respect
Mark's engineering philosophies and his love of flying that I decided
that I could wait a couple more months for a real ThunderGull rather
than go the quick and easy route. I like to think that my purchase is
supporting an artist and fellow lover of flying, and not just
somebody out to make some bucks.

Than's my $0.02.
--Dave

[Jim C]

--- In ThunderGull@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@q...>
wrote:
> The Titan and the Gull are nearly identical ... As I understand it
> the planes fly identically also.

Almost the same, but Mark has made small improvements in the wing,
which I can see when I put them side by side. They do fly very
similar, but the Gull seems to be a little lighter and more nimble on
the feel. You get a lot more gadgets and automatic electronics with
the Titan, but you could put those in the Gull if you wish. I prefer
to keep electronics minimal, and I don't particularly care for that
pointy nose. Actually, if I could get the Gull 2000 width and
characterisitcs in a J2 length (for easier and more stowage) and the
removable door on both sides (might need a little wider front
windshield for that though), I'd be exactly where I want to be.

Jim

[derbaier]

Jim, my Gull wishlist is just about identical to yours! To me, the
Titan pointy nose looks a little strange in a subsonic plane. Since I
used to fly the Piper Cherokee series a lot, I am kind of used to
having a door on only one side though. :-) The one place my
wishlist is different is my love of electronic gadgets. I have been
thinking seriously of putting an all electronic panel in my Gull2K
when I build it. That is why I did not order the EarthStar
instrumentation kit along with my Gull2K aircraft kit.

--Dave