Lets compare empty weights

[ansieman]

There seems to be a big variation in empty weights of Gulls among the
owners I've talked to. Since I've noticed that a few pounds makes a
big difference in my take-off roll, I'd like to lighten my plane some.

Before you tell me to lose some weight myself, I've already lost 10
lbs. Now I want to think about the plane instead of food.

It's a J model - 380 lbs empty. 20' fabric wing, 447 with c-box. No
starter/battery or chute. 6'wheels and tires. Full enclosure & door.

Does anyone have a lighter plane? How'd you manage to keep it
light? Any suggestions for me?

[JERRY]

My J came out at about 340 pounds with an old Rotax 377 (90 pounds), a
borrowed parachute (17 pounds), no door or left side panel (removable), 20'
fabric wing, molded fiberglass belly skin. Since then I installed a Hirth
F-33 30 hp engine with an electric starter, and removed the parachute. It
now weighs about 285 pounds without the battery. I'm still zeroing in the
engine (carb jets and prop pitch), but it seems to fly just fine with my
170 pound weight ( I exercise a lot to keep it down) in Illinois.

To get closer to 254 pound part 103 weight I have thought about removing
the main gear brakes and maybe putting a single brake on the nose wheel. It
needs weight up front anyway and I don't need much braking on grass. I
think I put more Polyfiber coating/paint on it than it needs. The
fiberglass landing gear legs are nice but are the same ones used for the
much heavier Odyssey, so there might be a way to reduce the weight there too.

---
Jerry Booker

[Ron E]

Interesting! My J weighs in at a bouncing 440#s, soaking wet.
I have 24' metal covered wings, 503 dual carb (alt comp),
electric start, IVO grd adj prop, full enclosure, 750# BRS canister,
10 gal fuel tank, etc. It all adds up! Besides all this,
I weigh in at 225#s.

The only penalty I have is in take-off distance. Once in
the air it flies like a dream, with 'normal' cruise speeds
according to Beierle. Handling is good, but I have never
tried any aerobatic maneuvers. The only UL type plane
I've ever had that handles better was a RANS S-14, which
really made me feel like I was in a military fighter.

I see that some of you have removable doors & side panels.
What does this do to performance? I would be concerned that
the baggage area would try to inflate and cause a lot of drag.
It would be nice to have the ventilation in the summer, are
there any plans available to do this? Is this recommended
or supported by the factory?

A nice feature of the J is that it will fly along nicely with
other ULs at a cruise of around 55-60 mph, turning about 4100-4200.
At this RPM it gets between 2.5 & 3 GPH, not too bad for a heavy
plane & pilot. This is as good or better than any of the other
planes I fly with, regardless of their size, weight, engine,
pilot. I usually take less fuel at the pump. Now, when it
gets a little boring & I do a lot of exploring & side trips
at 90-95 mph, it is a different story, like about 4 gph.

I have an IVO in-flight adjustable prop hub, but have never
put it on. I am certain it would improve my take-off roll
as well as my cruise speed. However, if the new Sport Plane
category goes into effect, the use of in-flight adjustable props
will not be allowed, as I understand it. Thoughts?

I have always recommended the J to anyone interested in
buying a new plane, but several have been discouraged
and wound up buying a new Titan because of slow response &
availability from Earthstar. They have felt that if the
factory isn't interested enough to hire more help to get
the product out, then someone else would. Too bad, but
that's what sells Titans.

Ron Carroll
Independence, Oregon

[JERRY]

I have flown my J both ways. There probably is a little more drag without
the door and side panel, but not much. I did notice about 8 mph difference
in indicated cruise speed, but I think most of that came from the lower
cockpit air pressure when the doors are on, throwing off the static
pressure to the ASI. I asked Mark about flying without doors/panels and he
said it would fly okay that way. Same was true about the Odyssey but I
don't know about the Gull 2000. It is much quieter, more roomy and better
visibility without them.

Probably true about the Titans. Things are better now that DCC Corp. in New
Jersey is manufacturing the J and Odyssey kits too.

---

Jerry Booker

[Ron E]

As I am behind on reading my mail, this reply is a
bit late coming, but who cares, right?

My J model was factory built, has a 503 dual
carb, C-gearbox, electric start, strobes,
750# BRS, 24' metal wing, 6" wheels & tires, etc..

Mine weighs in at 441#, and does not take
off or climb as good as my buddy's 340# J with 20'
wing & a 447 single carb. I'm a bit faster, as
he has his prop set for climb. Other than removing
the BRS, the electrical system & starter, I don't know
how I could remove much weight. Performance is
outstanding as it is, and I can only imagine what
it would be like after going to Jenny Craig for a while.

Ron Carroll
Independence, OR