Kickstand design revisited.

[fgayford]

Hi Mark and the rest of you Gullsters.

I have been thinking again about my kickstand design and have made some adjustments to my plan.
There is less weight on the boom nearer the vertical stabilizer so I would mount the stand farther back.
I would make a saddle that the boom tube will rest in half way around the boom tube. Mark you suggested in a earlier message that riveting was preferred to bolts in the event of extreme side way load damaging the boom tube. Do you think that the rivet holes in anyway would weaken the structural strength of the boom tube? If yes would it be insignificant.
I plan to make this thing in unidirectional carbon fiber (some bi-directional as well, infused, vaccum bagged epoxy with a core for lightness and strength. I will also heat cure in my oven for even more strength.It should weigh next to nothing.
So far the plan is to mount a small inline skate wheel where the stand meets the ground so sideway loads will give to the rolling action of the wheel.(wheel mounted to roll sideways)
A push pull cable would do the retracting from the pilot seat.
My plans will change as better ideas occurr.
So I am open to anyones suggestions. And yes I have kept weight and balance in mind.
Thanks
Fred

[earthstaraircraft]

In a message dated 5/6/2011 9:31:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
gayford@golden.net writes:


Hi Mark and the rest of you Gullsters.

I have been thinking again about my kickstand design and have made some
adjustments to my plan.
There is less weight on the boom nearer the vertical stabilizer so I would
mount the stand farther back.
I would make a saddle that the boom tube will rest in half way around the
boom tube. Mark you suggested in a earlier message that riveting was
preferred to bolts in the event of extreme side way load damaging the boom tube.
Do you think that the rivet holes in anyway would weaken the structural
strength of the boom tube? If yes would it be insignificant.
I plan to make this thing in unidirectional carbon fiber (some
bi-directional as well, infused, vaccum bagged epoxy with a core for lightness and
strength. I will also heat cure in my oven for even more strength.It should
weigh next to nothing.
So far the plan is to mount a small inline skate wheel where the stand
meets the ground so sideway loads will give to the rolling action of the
wheel.(wheel mounted to roll sideways)
A push pull cable would do the retracting from the pilot seat.
My plans will change as better ideas occurr.
So I am open to anyones suggestions. And yes I have kept weight and
balance in mind.
Thanks
Fred






What I do is just git in and fly, this is the simplest way. But I also
don't want to ad weight behind the CG. what ever weight you ad at that point
will have to add 2 times that weight to the nose to balance it. I just
thought of another way you could do it, Make it so it bolts to your tail wheel
axle, no extra mounting needed for that, than you would need a sizer type
arrangement that can be operated by a push pull tube, but I don't mean to
incurage you to do this. I have thousands of hrs flying the JT2 on lots of
cross countries and it wasn't all that bothersome to have to set the tail on
the ground. But than look at me, what a hypocrite! I designed my nest plane,
the Odyssey to set on all three wheels dident I?
I just worry that whind gusts while parked will damage something if it is
perched on a tooth pick.
Happy Flying
Mark

[dickoreilly]

Mark,

I've speculated that the old JT2 sitting on mains and tailwheel is less
susceptible to gusts moving it at a tiedown than the Odyssey and the singles
that sit on the nosewheel and mains. Because the wing of the sitting JT2 is
beyond critical angle of attack while not so for the others. Any truth to
that? Dick O'Reilly

[earthstaraircraft]

In a message dated 5/6/2011 7:25:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dickoreilly@yahoo.com writes:

Mark,

I've speculated that the old JT2 sitting on mains and tailwheel is less
susceptible to gusts moving it at a tiedown than the Odyssey and the singles
that sit on the nosewheel and mains. Because the wing of the sitting JT2 is
beyond critical angle of attack while not so for the others. Any truth to
that?
Dick O'Reilly


If you are in a high wind storm the best way to tie it down it level on all
3 wheels. The next best thing is tail in to the wind with control locks
for the JT2 with tail on ground. I like to tie the nose to the ground and the
tail if wind will be blowing over 60 mph.
Happy Flying
Mark

[blaswichk]

There's a trick the other airplane guys are doing when parked in your hangar, and that's putting a weight on the floor of the plane, like two bags of lead shot to hold the nose down for easy manuervering around. Another guy has a castering tailwheel (ala shopping cart), that allows him to push it around on it's tail. When I'm working on my Gull in the hangar, I slide a 5 gallon gas can under the boom so I don't knock it down inadvertently. We learn these tricks as we go.

kb

[earthstaraircraft]

In a message dated 5/9/2011 6:13:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
gayford@golden.net writes:

Thanks Mark

The Guy that I bought my plane from stepped right through the elevator the
day that he recieved shipment of the plane.
So it can happen. I just hate the look of the plane on its tail.

Question
If we ignore any loads on the boom tube would two 1/4 inch holes in the
sides weaken it at all? (and perhaps 4 rivets
Thanks
Fred

[earthstaraircraft]

In a message dated 5/9/2011 6:13:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
gayford@golden.net writes:

Thanks Mark

The Guy that I bought my plane from stepped right through the elevator the
day that he recieved shipment of the plane.
So it can happen. I just hate the look of the plane on its tail.

Question
If we ignore any loads on the boom tube would two 1/4 inch holes in the
sides weaken it at all? (and perhaps 4 rivets
Thanks
Fred




Hi Fred
2 1/4 in holes is OK but when a high wind hits the tail the forces pushing
the plane sideways on the stilt could dent or tear the un reinforced area
of the tail boom.
happy flying
Mark

[fgayford]

Thanks Mark that is what I wanted know first, about the bolts.
I will think further on how to ensure side loads will not transmit into the boom.
The side way caster wheel will help and I have no intention of having the nose wheel tight to the ground. The tail stand must be adjustable so the nose wheel has some clearance.
Fred

[fgayford]

Thanks Mark

The Guy that I bought my plane from stepped right through the elevator the day that he recieved shipment of the plane.
So it can happen. I just hate the look of the plane on its tail.

Question
If we ignore any loads on the boom tube would two 1/4 inch holes in the sides weaken it at all? (and perhaps 4 rivets
Thanks
Fred