Earthstar Forums

I read the pilot report on the internet written by Robert Perry. He seems to indicate around 200' takeoff and landing distances with TWO onboard the Odyssey. Is that correct?

What does the Odyssey POH indicate when the plane is fully loaded?

Thanks
RMM

He was talking about taking off down Mark's runway, which is a 7% downhill,
so that is realistic in that situation. On the flat, my JT2, lightly
loaded, needs about 150 ft to get airborne (roughly 80 hp engine). Two
people is going to take longer.

-Alan

Seems kinda tight to me. Obviously no trees around.

Yes, that is right,
Happy Flying,
Mark

The 200 foot is level ground paved runway at sea level HKS 60 hp Gross
weight.
Happy Flying,
Mark

He was talking about taking off down Mark's runway, which is a 7%
downhill, so that is realistic in that situation. On the flat, my JT2, lightly
loaded, needs about 150 ft to get airborne (roughly 80 hp engine). Two people
is going to take longer.


-Alan

I have an Odyssey with HKS-700E.

I take about 450 feet with two on board.

Here's what my typical takeoff stats are:
plane 530
me 205
wife 140
gas 60
total 930 lbs

I use a very conservative take off technique though.
My airport is 64CT if you want to see it on airnav.com

It's paved in relatively 'ok' condition
-o- I use two flaps
-o- Roll out to 55 to 60mph
-o- Abruptly rotate to get off the ground
-o- nose forward to climb at 65mph

I get about 600 fpm after that.
I put the flaps up around 500 AGL and continue climbing between 65 and 70mph

I also set my take off trim to 4.5 turns back from full nose up.
I have to crank about 2 turns nose down once I've got my 65mph climb stabilized.

Ed Baker

Thanks Ed..

Second Question (Student Pilot asking here):

If we say 500' for the usual distance with two on board with full fuel....how much extra margin would you experienced Odyssey fliers recommend to deal with float, gusts, cross-winds, and the usual learning and practice errors?

Do I need an additional 500' to be safe (1,000' total) or would 700' be reasonable enough?

I am a student pilot about half way to my PPL and still pre-solo.
As I am not familiar with the Odyssey, and if this project "flies", I will want to use the aircraft off-airport.

Of course, more is always better. But I would appreciate feedback on a "realistic" minimum rather than a margin that is clearly unnecessary. Makes it easier for me to identify suitable sites, if I don't have an excessive requirement.

In September, I will be locating sites that suit our Guam Runway 6 and 24 directions, or thereabouts. The island has lots of flat grassy areas, some public and some privately owned. The RC crowd has a site that should be ok for solo use. I will walk that field off in September to check.

Thanks
RMM

Ed,
 
Mark's planes are easy to fly, but they are slippery which means the more length you have to land in, the easier it is to land. You can hold it off if it doesn't feel or look quite right and let it settle in when it wants to. Trying to land going a little too fast with not quite enough space leads to bounces and bounces are very, very bad. They tend to get bigger rather than smaller and the third one usually ends in a crash. Taking off is the easy part, which is why new students usually do the first takeoff on the first lesson. I have a 2000-foot runway and I often used half of it or more in the first 30 or 40 hours I flew my JT2. Gradually I became more confident and my approaches became more consistent and I could reduce my approach speed knowing that the plane wasn't going to just suddenly stop flying a foot above the dirt. There are a few born pilots out there. But most of us have to learn it and as with learning any other precise skill, it takes
time and you make mistakes. Being consistently good is hard.
 
So the message is, do your learning on a long runway. I think 1000 feet is minimal. 2000 feet is better. Get so good that you never need more than the first 500 feet and you bore yourself time and again taxing down to the turn off. It is an approach to learning that is safe. And safe is never sorry. By the way, I speak with over 1100 hours in single-engine fixed gear and retractables before I bought my Thunder Gull and taught myself how to fly it. And land it.

Dick O'Reilly

I agree with Dick. I consider anything shorter than 1000 ft. to be short
field. That doesn't mean you can't land or take off there but you had
better know something about the airport (MSL, temperature, surface,
distance to any obstacles that can't be avoided) and your airplane (weight,
power loss per thousand feet of density altitude, loss of thrust etc.)

So, Big Bar in Snake Canyon, fairly hard surface, 1100 feet long, 1300 ft
MGL, doable if it is cool.

Lower Loon, 4200 MSL, 1200 ft. Only after I've flown a bit (practiced),
worked through my numbers and maybe only with a turbo depending on density
altitude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iWrW15 ... B&index=11

There are some basic equations your can use to get an estimate of your
aircraft performance based upon a couple of datapoints, plus some rules of
thumb (deep grass, increase your paved TO distance by 50% etc.)

Take off 10 times from a grass (short) airstrip that is flat and have a
friend measure your take off distance and then average them. Weigh your
airplane before and after. Do this fairly quickly so the temperature and
wind doesn't change too much. You can use that as a point to estimate your
performance by plugging weight, density altitude etc. into these equations.

Get Mark's advice and practice rolling onto the landing strip already
moving. 10 mph rolling start will decrease TO distance dramatically.

Skill has a LOT to do with this also.

-Alan

By "grass (short)" I meant the length of the grass is short (mowed). Find
a air field that hasn't been mowed in a while and try it there. Not too
long of grass, though in a pinch you can drive the airplane over the tall
grass to push it down before taking off. Landing in tall grass may not be
so easy unless you like being nose down and fixing you airplane :). See
the difference in takeoff roll. Will depend on tires and skill, etc.