THANKS MARK..
This is the best possible response! Practical yet including the possible. Great! I am not yet at the point of building just yet, but you have expanded the horizon immensely! Thanks.
RMM
SUPER - Mark's Response - FLOATS for Odyssey ?
-
johndfletcherca
Re: SUPER - Mark's Response - FLOATS for Odyssey ?
Regarding Patrick Vinet's Reply
I am the person that Patrick Vinet was referring to regarding installing Puddlejumper floats on an Odyssey.
I took delivery of my Odyssey kit April 14, 2010. This is actually my second Odyssey kit. The first was from DCC Corportion in New Jersey. While many components were excellent, there were some serious problems which resulted in DCC Corporation taking the kit back and giving me a refund. I spent several months working on the first kit and it was during this time that I first started talking with Patrick Vinet.
When I ordered my second kit from Mark, I got him to weld brackets on the fuselage to bolt the anti sway bars for Puddlejumper floats. A lot of thought went into this on the part of Mark and I and this was determined to be the best place. If you are considering floats, let Mark and I know. I can post pictures of them.
Patrick's comments on the nose gear came from discussions with me. The easiest way to deal with this problem is probably to make a nose gear replacement assembly that bolts to the same pivot points. The replacement would be just a steel tube that protrudes down to mate with the float gear assembly that is in line with the axis of rotation.
Mark's comments on floats are well put. In addition, there is a significant increase in risk with float operations and this will be reflected in your insurance rates if you have hull insurance. I read lots of accident reports where people forget to retract their gear and dig in and flip over. There are other hazards as well.
I live very close to Lake Ontario in Toronto Canada. There is some vague possibility of keeping my Odyssey at home and rolling it down to the lake to fly if I had floats, but it is problematic. In Northern Ontario, it is all trees and lakes everywhere. With respect to engine failure, float flying is the safest way there. So there are some valid applications, but Mark's comments should be kept in mind. There are trade offs.
I hope to finish my airframe within the next few months. I am well along with the wing and will finish it soon. There is an article about my project in the July 2013 issue of Kitplanes on page 40. The pictures were taken in March 2012. I have lost several months of building time due to family issues and other problems.
If anyone wishes to pursue Puddlejumper floats further, please keep me in the loop. I want to keep my aircraft compatible with it and have some experience to contribute. I will not be buying floats in the near future because of my present financial situation, but hope to get there eventually.
John Fletcher 416-283-3874
I am the person that Patrick Vinet was referring to regarding installing Puddlejumper floats on an Odyssey.
I took delivery of my Odyssey kit April 14, 2010. This is actually my second Odyssey kit. The first was from DCC Corportion in New Jersey. While many components were excellent, there were some serious problems which resulted in DCC Corporation taking the kit back and giving me a refund. I spent several months working on the first kit and it was during this time that I first started talking with Patrick Vinet.
When I ordered my second kit from Mark, I got him to weld brackets on the fuselage to bolt the anti sway bars for Puddlejumper floats. A lot of thought went into this on the part of Mark and I and this was determined to be the best place. If you are considering floats, let Mark and I know. I can post pictures of them.
Patrick's comments on the nose gear came from discussions with me. The easiest way to deal with this problem is probably to make a nose gear replacement assembly that bolts to the same pivot points. The replacement would be just a steel tube that protrudes down to mate with the float gear assembly that is in line with the axis of rotation.
Mark's comments on floats are well put. In addition, there is a significant increase in risk with float operations and this will be reflected in your insurance rates if you have hull insurance. I read lots of accident reports where people forget to retract their gear and dig in and flip over. There are other hazards as well.
I live very close to Lake Ontario in Toronto Canada. There is some vague possibility of keeping my Odyssey at home and rolling it down to the lake to fly if I had floats, but it is problematic. In Northern Ontario, it is all trees and lakes everywhere. With respect to engine failure, float flying is the safest way there. So there are some valid applications, but Mark's comments should be kept in mind. There are trade offs.
I hope to finish my airframe within the next few months. I am well along with the wing and will finish it soon. There is an article about my project in the July 2013 issue of Kitplanes on page 40. The pictures were taken in March 2012. I have lost several months of building time due to family issues and other problems.
If anyone wishes to pursue Puddlejumper floats further, please keep me in the loop. I want to keep my aircraft compatible with it and have some experience to contribute. I will not be buying floats in the near future because of my present financial situation, but hope to get there eventually.
John Fletcher 416-283-3874
-
rmm_guam
Re: SUPER - Mark's Response - FLOATS for Odyssey ?
Hello John...
Thanks for the additional comments. Good luck with completing your
Odyssey. I had read the article earlier. Glad to know you are
following this topic on the forum.
I also contacted KeyWestFloats. The owner, EP Dalton, is an experienced
sea pilot. He was not familiar with the Odyssey and made two comments.
1- He felt the HKS was underpowered. [See GreenSkyAdventures for engine
and prop tests that clearly show otherwise.]
2- He felt the Odyssey specs revealed an aircraft that was, and I
quote.."A Hotrod". Specifically, he prefers a stall speed around 30mph
or lower. He flies a Quicksilver.
The second point is worth careful thought. The risk factors you mention
were already in my list of concerns. I am going to search out an
off-airport grass field.
Thanks.
RMM
--- In Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "johndfletcherca" wrote:
>
> Regarding Patrick Vinet's Reply
>
> I am the person that Patrick Vinet was referring to regarding
installing Puddlejumper floats on an Odyssey.
>
> I took delivery of my Odyssey kit April 14, 2010. This is actually my
second Odyssey kit. The first was from DCC Corporation in New Jersey.
While many components were excellent, there were some serious problems
which resulted in DCC Corporation taking the kit back and giving me a
refund. I spent several months working on the first kit and it was
during this time that I first started talking with Patrick Vinet.
>
> When I ordered my second kit from Mark, I got him to weld brackets on
the fuselage to bolt the anti sway bars for Puddlejumper floats. A lot
of thought went into this on the part of Mark and I and this was
determined to be the best place. If you are considering floats, let Mark
and I know. I can post pictures of them.
>
> Patrick's comments on the nose gear came from discussions with me. The
easiest way to deal with this problem is probably to make a nose gear
replacement assembly that bolts to the same pivot points. The
replacement would be just a steel tube that protrudes down to mate with
the float gear assembly that is in line with the axis of rotation.
>
> Mark's comments on floats are well put. In addition, there is a
significant increase in risk with float operations and this will be
reflected in your insurance rates if you have hull insurance. I read
lots of accident reports where people forget to retract their gear and
dig in and flip over. There are other hazards as well.
>
> I live very close to Lake Ontario in Toronto Canada. There is some
vague possibility of keeping my Odyssey at home and rolling it down to
the lake to fly if I had floats, but it is problematic. In Northern
Ontario, it is all trees and lakes everywhere. With respect to engine
failure, float flying is the safest way there. So there are some valid
applications, but Mark's comments should be kept in mind. There are
trade offs.
>
> I hope to finish my airframe within the next few months. I am well
along with the wing and will finish it soon. There is an article about
my project in the July 2013 issue of Kitplanes on page 40. The pictures
were taken in March 2012. I have lost several months of building time
due to family issues and other problems.
>
> If anyone wishes to pursue Puddlejumper floats further, please keep me
in the loop. I want to keep my aircraft compatible with it and have some
experience to contribute. I will not be buying floats in the near future
because of my present financial situation, but hope to get there
eventually.
>
> John Fletcher 416-283-3874
>
> --- In Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "rmm_guam" ananda@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > THANKS MARK..
> > This is the best possible response! Practical yet including the
possible. Great! I am not yet at the point of building just yet, but
you have expanded the horizon immensely! Thanks.
> > RMM
> >
> >
> > --- In Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, thundergul@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > > Floats are really cool, and floats that can land on land are even
better.
> > > The reason that we like light airplanes is that they fly like
birds,
> > > light, nimble and fun. When you hook up your 18 foot fishing boat
on to your
> > > Porsche it changes its characteristics and is only something you
would do
> > > occasionally to get your boat to the water. I see attaching a boat
to the bottom
> > > of my plane as a means to an end. All the amphibians that I have
flown are
> > > real slugs! Big engines and low cruse speeds and not much
leftover payload
> > > and pore climb performance. On top of that it is an extreme
knitch
> > > industry populated by the wealthy and the extremely determined.
Having said all
> > > that, I make what costumers want, If they ask for electric
airplanes, I make
> > > that, if they ask for anfibs I make that, Not to many people ask
for anfibs
> > > and most of those have not yet thought it through. Than there is
the
> > > occasional determined aerial yatsman who can both afford it and
is willing to
> > > give up some of what flying a light inexpensive and efficient
planes all
> > > about.
> > > I am not against the idea and will help you make attachments, But
I don't
> > > have a body of water big enough to fly from to test it out.
> > > Happy Flying
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 6/27/2013 4:08:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> > > ananda@ writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Mark.
> > >
> > > Just trying to get the word out on PuddleJumpers kind offer. All
they
> > > require is a ready customer and some assist with the design
factors relevant to
> > > the unique Earthstar nose gear.
> > >
> > > The result...Earthstar aircraft expand their operations hugely.
> > >
> > > Cost and weight factors were already addressed in this thread.
Details are
> > > -10mph off cruise and ~115 pounds load.
> > >
> > > PuddleJumper Floats are on Titan, Challenger, FlightStar, Kitfox,
Rans,
> > > Kolb, etc. --- and now a good opportunity to add the Odyssey.
> > >
> > > BTW..Beach Landings?? Some months back, I read where one young
buck with
> > > his new PPL tried to impress his friends with a beach landing and
found
> > > himself defending his right to fly before the FAA. "500
feet"--"So as not to
> > > endanger any property or person"? One person a half mile away
complains -
> > > same result may happen. Just sayin'.
> > >
> > > My purpose is simply letting folks know. I am sure that if an
Odyssey
> > > owner needs some help to fit a set of PuddleJumper Floats,
Earthstar will be
> > > there.
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > RMM
> > >
> > > --- In _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
> > > (mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , thundergul@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi
> > > > This should work well but add a lot of weight and drag. And
expense, I
> > > like
> > > > the way I deal with the water sports issue. I take along a
little
> > > > inflatable raft, land on the beach and blow it up and jump in
and go
> > > play in the
> > > > water, but I am a cheep skate.
> > > > Happy Swimming
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 6/25/2013 8:36:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight
Time,
> > > > ananda@ writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > MARK...
> > > >
> > > > What is the situation regarding fitting floats to the Odyssey
aircraft.
> > > > I found this site (just below) that builds amphibious floats
for a
> > > > similiar tandem aircraft. Surely they are not cheap. Any
resource for
> > > this in
> > > > place? Any design already done?
> > > > Thanks
> > > > RMM
> > > >
> > > > http://www.ultralight.ca/amphib_gear.htm
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Thanks for the additional comments. Good luck with completing your
Odyssey. I had read the article earlier. Glad to know you are
following this topic on the forum.
I also contacted KeyWestFloats. The owner, EP Dalton, is an experienced
sea pilot. He was not familiar with the Odyssey and made two comments.
1- He felt the HKS was underpowered. [See GreenSkyAdventures for engine
and prop tests that clearly show otherwise.]
2- He felt the Odyssey specs revealed an aircraft that was, and I
quote.."A Hotrod". Specifically, he prefers a stall speed around 30mph
or lower. He flies a Quicksilver.
The second point is worth careful thought. The risk factors you mention
were already in my list of concerns. I am going to search out an
off-airport grass field.
Thanks.
RMM
--- In Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "johndfletcherca" wrote:
>
> Regarding Patrick Vinet's Reply
>
> I am the person that Patrick Vinet was referring to regarding
installing Puddlejumper floats on an Odyssey.
>
> I took delivery of my Odyssey kit April 14, 2010. This is actually my
second Odyssey kit. The first was from DCC Corporation in New Jersey.
While many components were excellent, there were some serious problems
which resulted in DCC Corporation taking the kit back and giving me a
refund. I spent several months working on the first kit and it was
during this time that I first started talking with Patrick Vinet.
>
> When I ordered my second kit from Mark, I got him to weld brackets on
the fuselage to bolt the anti sway bars for Puddlejumper floats. A lot
of thought went into this on the part of Mark and I and this was
determined to be the best place. If you are considering floats, let Mark
and I know. I can post pictures of them.
>
> Patrick's comments on the nose gear came from discussions with me. The
easiest way to deal with this problem is probably to make a nose gear
replacement assembly that bolts to the same pivot points. The
replacement would be just a steel tube that protrudes down to mate with
the float gear assembly that is in line with the axis of rotation.
>
> Mark's comments on floats are well put. In addition, there is a
significant increase in risk with float operations and this will be
reflected in your insurance rates if you have hull insurance. I read
lots of accident reports where people forget to retract their gear and
dig in and flip over. There are other hazards as well.
>
> I live very close to Lake Ontario in Toronto Canada. There is some
vague possibility of keeping my Odyssey at home and rolling it down to
the lake to fly if I had floats, but it is problematic. In Northern
Ontario, it is all trees and lakes everywhere. With respect to engine
failure, float flying is the safest way there. So there are some valid
applications, but Mark's comments should be kept in mind. There are
trade offs.
>
> I hope to finish my airframe within the next few months. I am well
along with the wing and will finish it soon. There is an article about
my project in the July 2013 issue of Kitplanes on page 40. The pictures
were taken in March 2012. I have lost several months of building time
due to family issues and other problems.
>
> If anyone wishes to pursue Puddlejumper floats further, please keep me
in the loop. I want to keep my aircraft compatible with it and have some
experience to contribute. I will not be buying floats in the near future
because of my present financial situation, but hope to get there
eventually.
>
> John Fletcher 416-283-3874
>
> --- In Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "rmm_guam" ananda@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > THANKS MARK..
> > This is the best possible response! Practical yet including the
possible. Great! I am not yet at the point of building just yet, but
you have expanded the horizon immensely! Thanks.
> > RMM
> >
> >
> > --- In Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, thundergul@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > > Floats are really cool, and floats that can land on land are even
better.
> > > The reason that we like light airplanes is that they fly like
birds,
> > > light, nimble and fun. When you hook up your 18 foot fishing boat
on to your
> > > Porsche it changes its characteristics and is only something you
would do
> > > occasionally to get your boat to the water. I see attaching a boat
to the bottom
> > > of my plane as a means to an end. All the amphibians that I have
flown are
> > > real slugs! Big engines and low cruse speeds and not much
leftover payload
> > > and pore climb performance. On top of that it is an extreme
knitch
> > > industry populated by the wealthy and the extremely determined.
Having said all
> > > that, I make what costumers want, If they ask for electric
airplanes, I make
> > > that, if they ask for anfibs I make that, Not to many people ask
for anfibs
> > > and most of those have not yet thought it through. Than there is
the
> > > occasional determined aerial yatsman who can both afford it and
is willing to
> > > give up some of what flying a light inexpensive and efficient
planes all
> > > about.
> > > I am not against the idea and will help you make attachments, But
I don't
> > > have a body of water big enough to fly from to test it out.
> > > Happy Flying
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 6/27/2013 4:08:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> > > ananda@ writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Mark.
> > >
> > > Just trying to get the word out on PuddleJumpers kind offer. All
they
> > > require is a ready customer and some assist with the design
factors relevant to
> > > the unique Earthstar nose gear.
> > >
> > > The result...Earthstar aircraft expand their operations hugely.
> > >
> > > Cost and weight factors were already addressed in this thread.
Details are
> > > -10mph off cruise and ~115 pounds load.
> > >
> > > PuddleJumper Floats are on Titan, Challenger, FlightStar, Kitfox,
Rans,
> > > Kolb, etc. --- and now a good opportunity to add the Odyssey.
> > >
> > > BTW..Beach Landings?? Some months back, I read where one young
buck with
> > > his new PPL tried to impress his friends with a beach landing and
found
> > > himself defending his right to fly before the FAA. "500
feet"--"So as not to
> > > endanger any property or person"? One person a half mile away
complains -
> > > same result may happen. Just sayin'.
> > >
> > > My purpose is simply letting folks know. I am sure that if an
Odyssey
> > > owner needs some help to fit a set of PuddleJumper Floats,
Earthstar will be
> > > there.
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > RMM
> > >
> > > --- In _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
> > > (mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , thundergul@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi
> > > > This should work well but add a lot of weight and drag. And
expense, I
> > > like
> > > > the way I deal with the water sports issue. I take along a
little
> > > > inflatable raft, land on the beach and blow it up and jump in
and go
> > > play in the
> > > > water, but I am a cheep skate.
> > > > Happy Swimming
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 6/25/2013 8:36:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight
Time,
> > > > ananda@ writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > MARK...
> > > >
> > > > What is the situation regarding fitting floats to the Odyssey
aircraft.
> > > > I found this site (just below) that builds amphibious floats
for a
> > > > similiar tandem aircraft. Surely they are not cheap. Any
resource for
> > > this in
> > > > place? Any design already done?
> > > > Thanks
> > > > RMM
> > > >
> > > > http://www.ultralight.ca/amphib_gear.htm
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
-
johndfletcherca
Re: SUPER - Mark's Response - FLOATS for Odyssey ?
Hi RRM,
Don't get me wrong. Float flying is tremendously fun and you can get into places that you wouldn't get to otherwise. One should have training and use check lists. I would like to do some myself. But I wouldn't used them all the time for efficiency reasons. The Puddlejumper floats are the best solution I know of so far. Challenger owners have a blast with them (see www.challenger.ca)
I am not in a position to verify performance of the HKS700E on an Odyssey but the HKS700T would certainly have more than enough power. I am hoping to install the HKS700T because it is a bit more fuel efficient, requires no muffler system which saves around $1000, saves me from having to add carb heat (a Canadian requirement for homebuilt aircraft with carburators)and maintains its power up to high altitudes. I also have the 28 foot version of the Odyssey wing which would help with floats.
I prefer low stalling speeds too, which is partly why I am building the 28' wing. But some aircraft might not stall as low as advertised. Mark has also made a really good tradeoff between low speed and susceptability to gusts and I trust his judgement.
Don't get me wrong. Float flying is tremendously fun and you can get into places that you wouldn't get to otherwise. One should have training and use check lists. I would like to do some myself. But I wouldn't used them all the time for efficiency reasons. The Puddlejumper floats are the best solution I know of so far. Challenger owners have a blast with them (see www.challenger.ca)
I am not in a position to verify performance of the HKS700E on an Odyssey but the HKS700T would certainly have more than enough power. I am hoping to install the HKS700T because it is a bit more fuel efficient, requires no muffler system which saves around $1000, saves me from having to add carb heat (a Canadian requirement for homebuilt aircraft with carburators)and maintains its power up to high altitudes. I also have the 28 foot version of the Odyssey wing which would help with floats.
I prefer low stalling speeds too, which is partly why I am building the 28' wing. But some aircraft might not stall as low as advertised. Mark has also made a really good tradeoff between low speed and susceptability to gusts and I trust his judgement.