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Polishing wing question

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:48 am
by fgayford
Some of the guys at our field, have said that I am removing aluminium everytime I polish and so weakening the wing.
I thought that that makes sense but figured I had 40 years worth before it became a problem.
I was just on youtube where a guy demonstrating this cyclone polisher on a airstream said something that made me think abit.
He said that most people think that when you polish aluminium you are removing material.(oxide of course) He went on to say that on a microscopic level you only push the metal around smoothing it out. The peaks are smoothed into the valleys.
I would like to think this was true!
Do any of you guys know anything about this?
Fred

Re: Polishing wing question

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:07 am
by earthstaraircraft
Hi Fred
They are both true. You mostly rub the aluminum down and this makes it
really smooth, the plane fly's better because it is smooth,it looks better
because it is smooth and reflects light better. but your cloth is black because
it removes the oxide. and a little aluminum. but not much. over he last 80
years that we have been polishing aluminum I would think we would have
some good information on exactly how much thinner the aluminum is getting, but
I have never seen any scientific data, just people ho don't want to do the
work so they justify there lazy ness by saying that they don't want to
make there plane weaker.
Happy Flying
Mark


In a message dated 4/4/2013 7:48:48 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
fgayford@silomail.com writes:




Some of the guys at our field, have said that I am removing aluminum every
time I polish and so weakening the wing.
I thought that that makes sense but figured I had 40 years worth before it
became a problem.
I was just on youtube where a guy demonstrating this cyclone polisher on a
airstream said something that made me think abit.
He said that most people think that when you polish aluminium you are
removing material.(oxide of course) He went on to say that on a microscopic
level you only push the metal around smoothing it out. The peaks are smoothed
into the valleys.
I would like to think this was true!
Do any of you guys know anything about this?
Fred

Re: Polishing wing question

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:25 am
by fgayford
Thanks Mark
I will stay with polishing. I am going to look for those cyclone double pad polishers at Oshkosh this year and maybe spring for Nuvite polish. I have been using "Autosol polish" so far.
Fred

Re: Polishing wing question

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:52 am
by gjcarter34
Most likely Nuvite will have a plane in their tent being polished at
Oshkosh, they do each year. It would be worth your while to get some hands
on experience with them helping you. It does take some time to develop a
feel for it and when you do, it polishes much easier. I would consider
polishing a winter project, the initial polishing is time consuming and you
need to take your time with many light passes. Once this is done correctly,
then a maintenance polish each year goes rather quickly and is
nothing compared to the first time. The trick is to do the maintenance
polish and not wait until it looks like it needs it. If you hangar your
plane then this would only need to be done once a year unless you left it
out in the rain. I found if it does get rained on then spend about an hour
just on the top with the cyclo and the shine is back.
Nuvite also has a cleaning polish that I use on the leading edge to remove
bugs and dust, takes about 5 minutes.

Even if we could powdercoat the wing, as Mark said, polishing looks better.
The powdercoat doesn't flow out as nicely as paint will on a large flat
surface. I wonder if applying a thin coat would help with that. I did do a
flex test and could not get the powder to crack on aluminum, even when bent
180 degrees over many times.

Re: Polishing wing question

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:54 pm
by fgayford
Thanks Gary
That is good advice. I remember a Titan P-51 in their tent as a demonstrator to practice on. I thought, what a great idea, donate you plane and get a free polish job. I will try it myself at Oshkosh this year. Interesting about the powdercoating taking abend like that.
Fred

Re: Polishing wing question

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:42 pm
by rahulchoudhary73
seems like polishing the panels before riveting may be easier, like on a solid block of wood. that soldiering pose was quite an amazing picture, Gary. Is this your third odyssey build?

(rubbing down the microscopic hills reminded me of sionyx, silicon with microscopic Grand Canyons so deep photons never reflect back)

Re: Polishing wing question

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:53 pm
by earthstaraircraft
Hi,
Please don't polish the panels before riveting. Build the plane, fly it
enjoy it and than after a year or two, than take the time to polish it if it
needs it. Can you tell I like to fly more than work on it.
Happy Flying
Mark Beierle, Earthstar Aircraft.


In a message dated 4/8/2013 12:42:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
rahul.chou@gmail.com writes:




seems like polishing the panels before riveting may be easier, like on a
solid block of wood. that soldiering pose was quite an amazing picture, Gary.
Is this your third odyssey build?


(rubbing down the microscopic hills reminded me of sionyx, silicon with
microscopic Grand Canyons so deep photons never reflect back)

On 07-Apr-2013, at 7:22 PM, Gary Carter <_gjcarter34@gmail.com_
(mailto:gjcarter34@gmail.com) > wrote:






Most likely Nuvite will have a plane in their tent being polished at
Oshkosh, they do each year. It would be worth your while to get some hands on
experience with them helping you. It does take some time to develop a feel
for it and when you do, it polishes much easier. I would consider polishing
a winter project, the initial polishing is time consuming and you need to
take your time with many light passes. Once this is done correctly, then a
maintenance polish each year goes rather quickly and is nothing compared to
the first time. The trick is to do the maintenance polish and not wait
until it looks like it needs it. If you hangar your plane then this would only
need to be done once a year unless you left it out in the rain. I found
if it does get rained on then spend about an hour just on the top with the
cyclo and the shine is back.
Nuvite also has a cleaning polish that I use on the leading edge to remove
bugs and dust, takes about 5 minutes.

Even if we could powdercoat the wing, as Mark said, polishing looks
better. The powdercoat doesn't flow out as nicely as paint will on a large flat
surface. I wonder if applying a thin coat would help with that. I did do a
flex test and could not get the powder to crack on aluminum, even when bent
180 degrees over many times.



On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Fred <_fgayford@silomail.com_
(mailto:fgayford@silomail.com) > wrote:





Thanks Mark
I will stay with polishing. I am going to look for those cyclone double
pad polishers at Oshkosh this year and maybe spring for Nuvite polish. I have
been using "Autosol polish" so far.
Fred

--- In _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , thundergul@... wrote:
>
> Hi Fred
> They are both true. You mostly rub the aluminum down and this makes it
> really smooth, the plane fly's better because it is smooth,it looks
better
> because it is smooth and reflects light better. but your cloth is black
because
> it removes the oxide. and a little aluminum. but not much. over he last
80
> years that we have been polishing aluminum I would think we would have
> some good information on exactly how much thinner the aluminum is
getting, but
> I have never seen any scientific data, just people ho don't want to do
the
> work so they justify there lazy ness by saying that they don't want to
> make there plane weaker.
> Happy Flying
> Mark
>
>
> In a message dated 4/4/2013 7:48:48 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> fgayford@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> Some of the guys at our field, have said that I am removing aluminum
every
> time I polish and so weakening the wing.
> I thought that that makes sense but figured I had 40 years worth before
it
> became a problem.
> I was just on youtube where a guy demonstrating this cyclone polisher on
a
> airstream said something that made me think abit.
> He said that most people think that when you polish aluminium you are
> removing material.(oxide of course) He went on to say that on a
microscopic
> level you only push the metal around smoothing it out. The peaks are
smoothed
> into the valleys.
> I would like to think this was true!
> Do any of you guys know anything about this?
> Fred
>

Re: Polishing wing question

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:33 pm
by gjcarter34
My first Odyssey was a restoration. This new one I'm building from the kit.

Re: Polishing wing question

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:36 pm
by gjcarter34
I think you would eventually end up scratching the panels if you polished
them before installing.

Re: Polishing wing question

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:17 am
by rahulchoudhary73
thought you'd built one last winters too, blue trim, with the handbrake on the joystick; and there was one with grey trim, no doors

just thought there'll be plenty time while building, when i *finally* got to it. (while the body accepted a new knee ligament)