Earthstar Forums

Hi everyone,I now have enough hours on my gull 2000 that I want to do some short field work. Flaps: how much and what to expect? Max speed on climb out at each flap setting. Cross winds with flaps?

I currently use two notches on take off and rotate about 50 mph. I hold the climb speed to not more than 75/80. Landing so far not more than one notch,@ 60/65.. 24' wing 55 hp hirth BTW.. I should say I love this plane and just dont want to screw it up! Thanks Mike

Hi Mike,

I mostly use no flaps for take-off, but have used one notch and less than full power. The nose comes up faster, and as soon as it leaves the ground, I roll in the rest of the power. I watched Mark do an extreme departure in my plane by yanking 2 notches of the flaps in the roll. The plane came off really quick. On landing I use 2 notches and hold 70mph down to short final with the 20' wing, and plan to cross the numbers at about 60mph.
Yes, it is easy to fall in love with the handling of these planes. They are so much not ultralights in handling, even though the weights are similar to other fat ultralights/E-LSA's.

kb

Oh, and cross-wind landings are not a problem with 1 notch of flaps. The Gull slips so well, that dropping the upwind wing is as easy as a Cessna. I get the plane lined up on the extended centerline, and just slip as needed to hold my heading. When other ultralights are hiding from the wind, the Gulls are out dancing in it!!

kb

Hi Kess
I like to land with 2 notches or full flaps. Unless it its really gusty,
than probably no flaps. It seems tat the plane balloons when hit with a gust
while you have full flaps but if you don't have flaps it pinches right
through it. Don't be afraid of the flaps. they really reduce the landing
roll. Hear at Earthstar I always use full flaps but at big airports 1/2 or none
.
Happy Flying
Mark


In a message dated 5/23/2011 7:49:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
kessb@wavecable.com writes:




Oh, and cross-wind landings are not a problem with 1 notch of flaps. The
Gull slips so well, that dropping the upwind wing is as easy as a Cessna. I
get the plane lined up on the extended centerline, and just slip as needed
to hold my heading. When other ultralights are hiding from the wind, the
Gulls are out dancing in it!!

kb

In my JT2, on a dirt/gravel/rocks runway, with 24ft wing and 50hp Rotax 503 -
solo one notch of flaps takeoff and landing, two notches on a short field (1000
is the shortest field I've used.) My home field is 2000 ft. 

With a passenger it is two notches and climb is in the 300-400 ft range. Home
field elevation is 3230 ft and density altitude is often over 6000 ft in the
summer.

I wear 25-yr-old David Clark headset and leave my hearing aid at home. (I've
lost higher frequency response but only wear hearing aids part time. (I do
accuse my wife of whispering a lot, however. She accuses me of not wearing my
hearing aids). Among pilots at my airport, Zulu Lightspeed is regarded as the
best, particularly among the open cockpit crowd.

An iPad wouldn't fit in my JT2, unless a new instrument panel was built around
it. I've got a Garmin Aera 500 mounted just below the panel and it works great.
The more expensive versions of same unit do offer WX. It has a great HSI panel
and I'm sure I could maintain control with it if I ever encountered IMC
inadvertently. I use the map view all the time to stay out of all the Edwards
AFB restricted airspace just north of me, and Class D airspace east and west.

As a backup, I've got the V-Cockpit GPS app on my iPhone. It has a great
attitude indicator. I have a way to mount it to a flexible arm on a suction cup
that sticks quite well to the thin lexan window on my left side. Since I
normally fly solo, I carry the suction cup arm in the back seat and can grab it
and mount it if I need it. Mounting the iPhone on the panel would put it too far
away to see the V-Cockpit display.  I also installed a socket for my iPhone 12v
charger.  
 Dick O'Reilly

Thanks everyone for the info. Had another great flight last evening!

Hi Mark
As you know I am a very low time pilot. I have about 30 hours total solo in my JT2 (503 24 foot wing). I worry most about what I would do if the engine quit.
I am always looking for a field I would come down on.
But I worry that I will over shoot by coming in too hot. I would like to use the full flaps but haven't mustered up the courage yet.
Could you take me through a landing with full flaps?
At what point in the approach do you put the full flaps on?
At what airspeed?
At what airspeed do you touch down?
Thanks
Fred

Fred,
I will chime in here. You might want to pratice slips, and spot landings. And also various flap settings. What you don't want to do is stuff the nose down, as in old draggy ultralights to force it on the ground, as the Gull picks up speed really fast. I use slips to burn off excess altitude, then yank on full flaps at short final to hit the spot. Practise at a larger runway so you have lots of extra space in case things don't go as planned. About 10 landings in a row will get you dialed in.

kb

Hi Fred
The flaps are easy to use. just remember to be at about 50 55 when you put
down full flaps or it will be to hard to put them down. I like to put in
the flaps as needed. 1/2 flaps is a normal approach but if you want to land
shorter full is better. I will turn to base and put down full flaps and than
fly approach at between 60 and 70. do not let it get below 60 and you will
have enough energy for a flair even with 2 people in the plane.
You will never know the touchdown speed because you will be looking
straight ahead at the far end of the runway. this gives you the depth perception
that is necessary for a good landing. on final approach make a note of the
angle of attack that gives you 65 mph. angle of attack is what makes the
plane fly at any airspeed. so if you establish the right angle of attack for
65 mph than you will not need to look at the airspeed again. Just look out
the window to the far end of the runway. the flaps will give you a steeper
approach but it is easy to round out in time and as you are looking at the
far end of the runway you will have the depth perception to allow you to
round out at the right time, Hold it off just a few inches off the ground for
a perfect short field landing.You can also do slips with full flaps but you
will need to push the stick all the way forward as necessary as you slip.
try this at altitude first. I don't generally slip but it is nice to know
if it is necessary.
Happy Flying
Mark


In a message dated 6/27/2011 6:35:02 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
gayford@golden.net writes:




Hi Mark
As you know I am a very low time pilot. I have about 30 hours total solo
in my JT2 (503 24 foot wing). I worry most about what I would do if the
engine quit.
I am always looking for a field I would come down on.
But I worry that I will over shoot by coming in too hot. I would like to
use the full flaps but haven't mustered up the courage yet.
Could you take me through a landing with full flaps?
At what point in the approach do you put the full flaps on?
At what airspeed?
At what airspeed do you touch down?
Thanks
Fred

--- In _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , thundergul@... wrote:
>
> Hi Kess
> I like to land with 2 notches or full flaps. Unless it its really gusty,
> than probably no flaps. It seems tat the plane balloons when hit with a
gust
> while you have full flaps but if you don't have flaps it pinches right
> through it. Don't be afraid of the flaps. they really reduce the landing
> roll. Hear at Earthstar I always use full flaps but at big airports 1/2
or none
> .
> Happy Flying
> Mark
>
>
> In a message dated 5/23/2011 7:49:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> kessb@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> Oh, and cross-wind landings are not a problem with 1 notch of flaps. The
> Gull slips so well, that dropping the upwind wing is as easy as a
Cessna. I
> get the plane lined up on the extended centerline, and just slip as
needed
> to hold my heading. When other ultralights are hiding from the wind, the
> Gulls are out dancing in it!!
>
> kb
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: _kessb_ (mailto:kessb@...)
> To: __Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:_Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) _
> (mailto:_Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) )
> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 7:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Earthstar_Aircraft] Flaps ???
>
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I mostly use no flaps for take-off, but have used one notch and less
than
> full power. The nose comes up faster, and as soon as it leaves the
ground,
> I roll in the rest of the power. I watched Mark do an extreme departure
in
> my plane by yanking 2 notches of the flaps in the roll. The plane came
off
> really quick. On landing I use 2 notches and hold 70mph down to short
final
> with the 20' wing, and plan to cross the numbers at about 60mph.
> Yes, it is easy to fall in love with the handling of these planes. They
> are so much not ultralights in handling, even though the weights are
similar
> to other fat ultralights/E-LSA's.
>
> kb
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: _Mike_ (mailto:mmarckel@...)
> To: __Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:_Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) _
> (mailto:_Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) )
> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 6:32 PM
> Subject: [Earthstar_Aircraft] Flaps ???
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,I now have enough hours on my gull 2000 that I want to do
some
> short field work. Flaps: how much and what to expect? Max speed on climb
> out at each flap setting. Cross winds with flaps?
>
> I currently use two notches on take off and rotate about 50 mph. I hold
> the climb speed to not more than 75/80. Landing so far not more than one
> notch,@ 60/65.. 24' wing 55 hp hirth BTW.. I should say I love this
plane and
> just dont want to screw it up! Thanks Mike
>

Thanks Mark
I will do some practice work this week end . At altitude first.
Do you ever take off with full flaps if the field is short?
Fred