Earthstar Forums

Hi Skot
For some reason I find that the issue of a parachute hotly debated. Some people get worked up like your talking about politics or something.
I talked to Mark and this what I think I remember him saying.
You don,t really need a BRS parachute for my line of planes. ( There has never been a structural failure) But! If your wife says you need a parachute! You need a parachute!!!!!
So I need a parachute. ( my wife is never wrong)
In my opinion the BRS should not be looked on as a crutch that makes you feel you can take chances as to where you fly. Or do crazy stunt flying. I heard of one pilot that up and pulled his chute when his dash lights went off?????
If you have absolutely no way of controlling the airplane or you have a mid air then its time to use your option of using your emergency BRS parachute.
Does anyone think that a fighter pilot would take off knowing his ejector seat is not working, I don't think so.
I wear my seat belt in my car and have never needed it . ( been driving for 45 years)
But I won,t drive without it. I wear a helmet when riding my motorcycle. (been riding for the same period of time, and have never needed it.)
So in my airplane I want the following safety devices. Seatbelts,Helmet and an emergency BRS Parachute.
Well thats my 2 cents worth .
Fred

In a message dated 1/22/2011 12:15:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
SWeidemann@aol.com writes:

I know a Chute extra insurance, but do you really need one? I have not
noticed chutes in most of the photos of the Odyssey for instance. If there is
good structural integrity and you don't fly into IMC conditons isn't it
un-necessary?




Hi Skot

I don't recommend Parachutes unless you are doing aerobatics.
But I will install them for those that want them.
Happy Flying
Mark

Skot,

Most of my friends don't fly with chutes, and they can be a pain to install. My theory is, unless your doing aerobatics, the airframe will probably never be stressed enough to break, and if the engine quits, just glide to a landing, even if it's not desirable. When the chute gets deployed, you are just along for the ride, and hopefully it's right side up, and it may be in trees or wires, but it does beat augering in if the airframe is broke. Like Mark said, the Gull 2000 and the Odyssey both need the chute in the nose for ballast, or you have to add rocks to get the plane in proper CG range. In my Gull 2000, I look at the handle quite often, and I do feel better when I loop and roll, plus it's a great place to hang my headset.

kb

Fred,

I will have to try again on Wednseday for the inside picture of the BRS mounted in Sal's 'J' Thundergull. It's not a softpack, it's the cannister type that is mostly inside, with the projection end sticking out of the airframe, just forward of the engine, and I happen to notice, real close to the fan housing.

kb

Hi Kess
When you say Loop, do you mean as in loop the loop? And roll, as in barrel roll?
Fred

Yup, the 20' wing rolls really nice, as you can change flight directions in heartbeat. The loops are doable with any wing. Just use about 100-110mph for entry speed, relax stick back pressure over top, and it winds up nice and round with no excess airspeed or g-loads.

kb

Your a brave man! I can't image doing those manuvers myself. I am still wet behind the ears as far as flight experience goes. (well maybe I can imagine doing a roll some where up the road)
Were you taught or just went out a did it?
Fred

I owned a Cessna 150 Aerobat for 12 years, and have probably 400 hours of rocking and rolling. The Gull is a familiar feel, but quicker. The wing-tip references are like my 150 was, and it feels very natural, but don't know whether I would experiment if I didn't have previous time. You need a safe altitude to start with, like 3500'AGL, and know that a blown maneuver can wind up scary looking.

kb

Hi All
I scared my self teaching myself to do aerobatics. a lot of luck is the
reason I am still alive. I used to do a lot of aerobatics. Now I don't do them
at all, and I enjoy Flying for what it is and Don't recommend aerobatics.
There dangerous for the trained and disciplined pilot but reckless and fool
hardy for the novice without training.
Happy Flying
Mark


In a message dated 1/23/2011 7:03:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
kessb@wavecable.com writes:




I owned a Cessna 150 Aerobat for 12 years, and have probably 400 hours of
rocking and rolling. The Gull is a familiar feel, but quicker. The wing-tip
references are like my 150 was, and it feels very natural, but don't know
whether I would experiment if I didn't have previous time. You need a safe
altitude to start with, like 3500'AGL, and know that a blown maneuver can
wind up scary looking.

kb



----- Original Message -----
From: _Fred_ (mailto:gayford@golden.net)
To: _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: [Earthstar_Aircraft] Re: BRS Soft Pack and the JT2



Your a brave man! I can't image doing those manuvers myself. I am still
wet behind the ears as far as flight experience goes. (well maybe I can
imagine doing a roll some where up the road)
Were you taught or just went out a did it?
Fred

--- In _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , "kessb" <kessb@...> wrote:
>
> Yup, the 20' wing rolls really nice, as you can change flight directions
in heartbeat. The loops are doable with any wing. Just use about
100-110mph for entry speed, relax stick back pressure over top, and it winds up nice
and round with no excess airspeed or g-loads.
>
> kb
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fred
> To: _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com)
> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:34 AM
> Subject: [Earthstar_Aircraft] Re: BRS Soft Pack and the JT2
>
>
>
> Hi Kess
> When you say Loop, do you mean as in loop the loop? And roll, as in
barrel roll?
> Fred
>
> --- In _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , "kessb" <kessb@> wrote:
> >
> > Skot,
> >
> > Most of my friends don't fly with chutes, and they can be a pain to
install. My theory is, unless your doing aerobatics, the airframe will
probably never be stressed enough to break, and if the engine quits, just glide
to a landing, even if it's not desirable. When the chute gets deployed, you
are just along for the ride, and hopefully it's right side up, and it may
be in trees or wires, but it does beat augering in if the airframe is broke.
Like Mark said, the Gull 2000 and the Odyssey both need the chute in the
nose for ballast, or you have to add rocks to get the plane in proper CG
range. In my Gull 2000, I look at the handle quite often, and I do feel better
when I loop and roll, plus it's a great place to hang my headset.
> >
> > kb
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Skot
> > To: _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com)
> > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 12:12 PM
> > Subject: [Earthstar_Aircraft] Re: BRS Soft Pack and the JT2
> >
> >
> >
> > I know a Chute extra insurance, but do you really need one? I have not
noticed chutes in most of the photos of the Odyssey for instance. If there
is good structural integrity and you don't fly into IMC conditons isn't it
un-necessary?
> >
> > Skot
> >
> > --- In _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , "Fred" <gayford@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Kess
> > > Hate to be a pain but did you ever get a picture.
> > > Thanks
> > > Fred
> > >
> > > --- In _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , "Fred" <gayford@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thats great Kess.
> > > > I am sure others would also be interested to see whats out there.
Thanks.
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > > --- In _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , "kessb" <kessb@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I will do that. I don't see him all the time on our
Wednesday or Saturday fly-guys days, but will take a photo as soon as I can and
will post it and let you know.
> > > > >
> > > > > kb
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Fred
> > > > > To: _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com)
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 5:37 AM
> > > > > Subject: [Earthstar_Aircraft] Re: BRS Soft Pack and the JT2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Kess
> > > > > If it would not be too much trouble is there a chance that you
could get some pictures? No hurry!
> > > > > I didn't think there was enough room for the canister chute to
come out in front of the motor. I believe the canister is 8 inches in
diameter.
> > > > > When I look at the wing construction it sure would be nice if
the soft pack could be placed in one of the cavites in the wing with a rip
panel cover.
> > > > > It is just a thought and I wouldn't do anything unless Mark
approved.
> > > > > Fred
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , "kessb" <kessb@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My friend with the 'J' ( I think that is what it its, because
it has no rear stick, but has a rear door), has a canister type mounted
straight up at an angle to clear the starter on the 503. It protudes through
the top of the fuselage in the back triangle area right underneath the
engine. The oil tank is mounted just to the left of it hanging off the rear
spar.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > kb
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Fred
> > > > > > To: _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com)
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 6:01 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [Earthstar_Aircraft] Re: BRS Soft Pack and the JT2
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was my first thought but Mark said that it is too large
and would cause handling issues. I noticed how small the soft pack was and
thought that perhaps I could design a smaller wing hugging streamlined
fiberglass case for it to go in to.
> > > > > > I am not sure what Mark thinks about this.I suppose if Mark is
OK with this I could make the case before I buy the chute and mount it for
a test to see if it causes handling problems. It would be a much smaller
profile than the Titan method.
> > > > > > Fred
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , "kessb" <kessb@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Fred,
> > > > > > > The Titan guys mount a pod like thing on top of the wing,
about where an oil tank might be. One of my buddies has an older Thundergull
without a back seat or stick, and it is mounted right in front of the
engine, exposed straight up. Ask Mark where the best place would be.
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Fred
> > > > > > > To: _Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Earthstar_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com)
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 1:09 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [Earthstar_Aircraft] BRS Soft Pack and the JT2
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Being the BRS Soft pack chute only measures 10 x 11 x 5.5
inches, is there anywhere on a JT2 that it can be mounted?
> > > > > > > Could a fiberglass case be made and mount it where the 2
stroke oil tank is now?
> > > > > > > Thoughts?
> > > > > > > Fred
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

It is nice to know that the plane is structurally strong enough to do aerobatics, but I am not going to do them with my airplane.
My wife expects me home for dinner!!
Fred