New Situation: Gull 2000, manuf circa 1999, Rotax 503 dual carbs, dual ignition. I am still learning to fly. My local test pilot has flown this bird twice in recent weeks. So far all I do is taxi and tiny crow hops or just nose wheel off runway. Anyway at my practice on Sun 27 Dec 15 engine starts and runs fine, on EIS I noticed voltage 11.7 and wondered but moved on. I taxi around for 10min and go back to hangar for my sunglasses. Shut down engine, get glasses and restart engine without problem. I taxi around for an hour and come back to hangar. I use key switch to shut down engine. Engine shuts down and I notice no EIS meter and I hear no clicks from electric fuel pump. I flip the bat switches for main, EIS and fuel pump (3 individual switches). Nothing. I try the key switch to start position and nothing. Once in the hangar I pull the cowl and ck the battery with multimeter. I see about 12v (not exact). I go to cockpit and turn on 3 switches: slight flicker on EIS and the red light flickers. Back to the battery and now less than 1 volt on multimeter. I remove battery and chk it again and try to charge with trickle charger. Still less than one volt. Battery seems dead to nothing. Indications are that battery was installed Nov 2014 but I do not know the condition at installation.
See attached a photo of this battery. It weighs 20lbs (home scale) and it still will not receive a charge when using a 2 amp trickle charger (automotive type).
I am wanting to know if anyone has substituted a lighter weight battery and if such is a major concern with weight and balance since it resides so far forward in that nose cone.
As to the situation, I think I watched video in which Lockwood said that Rotax engine has special feature where engine will run without battery. I guess that is what must happen if you have a pull start engine. (Duh)
I will be testing the charging system as I go forward (with a motorcycle battery substituted in) but my reading tells me that much lighter weight batteries are now being used. Humor channel: yes I should just put in a few laptop batteries and forget the 503.
Any help, comments, corrections, or lessons appreciated.
Tommy (aka Gary)
Battery Failure
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: Battery Failure
well, these sony 40x zoom handycam batteries are still good after 8 thanksgivings, even after they've bin out cold for months at a time; infolithium they're branded; 104mins primary, ~350mins spare, 7.2v, must be <.5#
(like the Dylan song) wonder how many years can a lithium battery last? and how many times can they be recharged? and how many mins do Mark's 700x handycam batts last? and how many years must we wait for all the itsy-bitsy batteries pin connectors to get standardized? anyhow, here's to hoping for a 3hr range eGull next year
HNY,
rc
(like the Dylan song) wonder how many years can a lithium battery last? and how many times can they be recharged? and how many mins do Mark's 700x handycam batts last? and how many years must we wait for all the itsy-bitsy batteries pin connectors to get standardized? anyhow, here's to hoping for a 3hr range eGull next year
HNY,
rc
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: Battery Failure
well, these sony 40x zoom handycam batteries are still good after 8 thanksgivings, even after they've bin out cold for months at a time; infolithium they're branded; 104mins primary, ~350mins spare, 7.2v, must be <.5#
(like the Dylan song) wonder how many years can a lithium battery last? and how many times can they be recharged? and how many mins do Mark's 700x handycam batts last? and how many years must we wait for all the itsy-bitsy batteries pin connectors to get standardized? anyhow, here's to hoping for a 3hr range eGull next year
HNY,
rc
(like the Dylan song) wonder how many years can a lithium battery last? and how many times can they be recharged? and how many mins do Mark's 700x handycam batts last? and how many years must we wait for all the itsy-bitsy batteries pin connectors to get standardized? anyhow, here's to hoping for a 3hr range eGull next year
HNY,
rc
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earthstaraircraft
Re: Battery Failure
Hi
Replace your battery with the same gel cell as
You have, do not use wet cell motorcycle battery.
If you used a lighter battery you would have to
Make up the deference with led ballast!!!
503 charging system does not put out enough
Power to charge your battery at idle rpm.
Wen you fly you won't have this problem.
Wen you fly your plane, give it full throttle.
The rpm should not exceed 5700 -5800 rpm.
Before you pick up speed. This shows that the
Prop pitch is set correctly for your airplane.
If The RPM goes higher, you will see to high
RPMs at higher air speeds at cruse, 90+ mph
Due to the prop unloading. This would generate
High EGT. The redline is 1200 f and this is also
The best temperature to run the engine at, but
Variances in conditions and part throttle running
Causes EGT spikes well over that 1200 limit.
If you see spikes don't worry just change throttle
Till temps settle in range.
I run my 503s at 6000 rpm cruse and 90+ air speed
And 1100 to 1150 EGT. I have put over 1100 hrs on my 503 burning 4 gph.
Rotate at 55 and climb out at 60. After clearing
Obsticalls climb at 70 to 2000 feet and do some
Stalls. You will find it to be a non event.
Wen landing fly pattern at 70, use second
Flap and fly finial at 60 learn this approach
Angle of attack view. Fly this angle of atack
To the landing flair. Do Not Flair to soon!
The pitch control is responsive so you do not
Need to start flaring early and you are sitting
Lower to the ground than any GA planes you
Have flown!
You will find it easy to land if you look out the front
At the end of the runway only!
Happy Flying
Mark
Sent from my iPhone
Replace your battery with the same gel cell as
You have, do not use wet cell motorcycle battery.
If you used a lighter battery you would have to
Make up the deference with led ballast!!!
503 charging system does not put out enough
Power to charge your battery at idle rpm.
Wen you fly you won't have this problem.
Wen you fly your plane, give it full throttle.
The rpm should not exceed 5700 -5800 rpm.
Before you pick up speed. This shows that the
Prop pitch is set correctly for your airplane.
If The RPM goes higher, you will see to high
RPMs at higher air speeds at cruse, 90+ mph
Due to the prop unloading. This would generate
High EGT. The redline is 1200 f and this is also
The best temperature to run the engine at, but
Variances in conditions and part throttle running
Causes EGT spikes well over that 1200 limit.
If you see spikes don't worry just change throttle
Till temps settle in range.
I run my 503s at 6000 rpm cruse and 90+ air speed
And 1100 to 1150 EGT. I have put over 1100 hrs on my 503 burning 4 gph.
Rotate at 55 and climb out at 60. After clearing
Obsticalls climb at 70 to 2000 feet and do some
Stalls. You will find it to be a non event.
Wen landing fly pattern at 70, use second
Flap and fly finial at 60 learn this approach
Angle of attack view. Fly this angle of atack
To the landing flair. Do Not Flair to soon!
The pitch control is responsive so you do not
Need to start flaring early and you are sitting
Lower to the ground than any GA planes you
Have flown!
You will find it easy to land if you look out the front
At the end of the runway only!
Happy Flying
Mark
Sent from my iPhone
-
earthstaraircraft
Re: Battery Failure
Hi
We are using Zerootorcycle power systems in the eGull 1 hr 10 min endurance. Not the model airplane battery's any more.
Do a google search for eGull
Happy Flying
Mark
Sent from my iPhone
We are using Zerootorcycle power systems in the eGull 1 hr 10 min endurance. Not the model airplane battery's any more.
Do a google search for eGull
Happy Flying
Mark
Sent from my iPhone
-
earthstaraircraft
Re: Battery Failure
Hi
I goofed!
I should have said look at the Far end of the runway! This is very important.
It's like driving on the road in your car.
You look far down the road so your priferal vision can generate your depth perception and alignment to the road.
Trust yourself, you do know how to fly!
Happy Flying
Mark
Sent from my iPhone
I goofed!
I should have said look at the Far end of the runway! This is very important.
It's like driving on the road in your car.
You look far down the road so your priferal vision can generate your depth perception and alignment to the road.
Trust yourself, you do know how to fly!
Happy Flying
Mark
Sent from my iPhone
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ukey4917
Re: Battery Failure
Hello Mark,
Thank you for the words of encouragement and information re the actuator rod being upside down. Thanks for the battery clarifications and the flight parameters. I had read and noted your comments about 3 wks ago about the bird maintaining that sort of angle of descent to the landing point. I have a one-for-one new replacement battery on the way. The weather here in Virgina at this time of year does not provide a lot of flying opportunities but we have had more that most would have expected in the last 3 months. I have a Belite ultralight also (now with some engine concerns probably due to my hubris with the cowling) and before it went into the trailer, I flew that just 4 times on my own around the pattern and landed that one reasonably neatly. That was solo in a single seater without solo in a GA or 2 seat Light Sport. I know there are differences and I am noting your comments that those of my local test pilot who has been flying the Gull 2000. Again my thanks to you and I will be back for more help as we go along.
Tommy (aka Gary)
Thank you for the words of encouragement and information re the actuator rod being upside down. Thanks for the battery clarifications and the flight parameters. I had read and noted your comments about 3 wks ago about the bird maintaining that sort of angle of descent to the landing point. I have a one-for-one new replacement battery on the way. The weather here in Virgina at this time of year does not provide a lot of flying opportunities but we have had more that most would have expected in the last 3 months. I have a Belite ultralight also (now with some engine concerns probably due to my hubris with the cowling) and before it went into the trailer, I flew that just 4 times on my own around the pattern and landed that one reasonably neatly. That was solo in a single seater without solo in a GA or 2 seat Light Sport. I know there are differences and I am noting your comments that those of my local test pilot who has been flying the Gull 2000. Again my thanks to you and I will be back for more help as we go along.
Tommy (aka Gary)
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rahulchoudhary73
Re: Battery Failure
Hi Mark,
EVHangar dudes have more good information (10nov15) on the eGull, behind a pay wall, with a photo courtesy star7gull. guess i'll just wait until am actually closer. to purchasing time.
btw, star7gull Sounds like Beierle Sr. or related. Happy new year to him too.
best wishes,
rc
EVHangar dudes have more good information (10nov15) on the eGull, behind a pay wall, with a photo courtesy star7gull. guess i'll just wait until am actually closer. to purchasing time.
btw, star7gull Sounds like Beierle Sr. or related. Happy new year to him too.
best wishes,
rc
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ukey4917
Re: Battery Failure
04Jan16
Hello Earthstar Aficionados,
While waiting for my battery to arrive (direct replacement) I hooked up a used motor cycle battery to my system to check the other electric circuits. The EIS came up, the Electric Fuel pump clicked as expected and the starter motor turned the engine (after I said “clear prop” but not because I said that). It was sluggish and also hesitant . Problem: the engine did not fire. I used the same usual procedure with three prime loads and some movement of the throttle handle. After 3 or 4 tries nothing so I put it back in the hangar and did checks with multimeter and I found nothing wrong (so much as I did). Question: Does that Rotax 503 need a certain amperage to fire? Background: I did read in the Rotax 503 Operations manual that something like 20 amps or higher is recommended. And I recall a situation about 6 months ago with a friend with another Rotax 2 stroke with electric start in which the battery was weak and there was no start. (Too wacky a story to tell but the gist of it was that an experienced hack used a jump battery combined with hand propping to get the engine running. I would not attempt such bush-league stuff but it is out there in the public.) Any replies, comments, criticisms, informative information is appreciated. Tommy (aka Gary)
Hello Earthstar Aficionados,
While waiting for my battery to arrive (direct replacement) I hooked up a used motor cycle battery to my system to check the other electric circuits. The EIS came up, the Electric Fuel pump clicked as expected and the starter motor turned the engine (after I said “clear prop” but not because I said that). It was sluggish and also hesitant . Problem: the engine did not fire. I used the same usual procedure with three prime loads and some movement of the throttle handle. After 3 or 4 tries nothing so I put it back in the hangar and did checks with multimeter and I found nothing wrong (so much as I did). Question: Does that Rotax 503 need a certain amperage to fire? Background: I did read in the Rotax 503 Operations manual that something like 20 amps or higher is recommended. And I recall a situation about 6 months ago with a friend with another Rotax 2 stroke with electric start in which the battery was weak and there was no start. (Too wacky a story to tell but the gist of it was that an experienced hack used a jump battery combined with hand propping to get the engine running. I would not attempt such bush-league stuff but it is out there in the public.) Any replies, comments, criticisms, informative information is appreciated. Tommy (aka Gary)